Racial Spells and Caster Levels

[WarpedAcorn]

I have a couple of easy questions about Racial Spells I'm hoping you guys can help me with.

1) If a Race grants a Spell, what is the level of that Spell? For instance, the Hellish Rebuke Spell from being a Tiefling, is it always cast at the minimum or does it increase in strength as the character levels up? (I'm assuming its always at the minimum)


2) If the Race grants a Spell and the Character is also a Spellcasting Class, does that Spell get added to their Spell List? Again with the Tiefling example, if the Tiefling was a Wizard would he get Hellish Rebuke added to his known spells?

 

[Rossbert]

1. Since you are not using a higher-level spell slot you do not get any of those improvements unless specifically noted. Tiefling specifically says that Hellish Rebuke is cast as a second level spell.

2. Generally not. There is a difference between knowing a spell and 'can cast once per day' compare the wording to the spell feats in Xanathar's to really see the distinction. Those specifically say you learn the spell AND can cast it once per day without using a slot.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

1. Since you are not using a higher-level spell slot you do not get any of those improvements unless specifically noted. Tiefling specifically says that Hellish Rebuke is cast as a second level spell.

2. Generally not. There is a difference between knowing a spell and 'can cast once per day' compare the wording to the spell feats in Xanathar's to really see the distinction. Those specifically say you learn the spell AND can cast it once per day without using a slot.

Awesome, thanks!

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

And in the case of the feats (or other sources) which say you learn the spell, it's important to remember that not all spell-casting classes can spend spell slots to cast any spell they know - such as the wizard, who only casts spells they have prepared.

 

[Rossbert]

And in the case of the feats (or other sources) which say you learn the spell, it's important to remember that not all spell-casting classes can spend spell slots to cast any spell they know - such as the wizard, who only casts spells they have prepared.

You can cast any spell you know with a spell slot of the appropriate level or higher, even if your normal class is a prep class like cleric, druid, or wizard.

This edition is weird where slots are not intrinsically tied to a class' spellcasting method as they used to be.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

You can cast any spell you know with a spell slot of the appropriate level or higher, even if your normal class is a prep class like cleric, druid, or wizard.

That's not what the rule-book says.

Compare the wizard class " If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot." to the sorcerer class "For example, if you know the 1st-level spell burning hands and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast burning hands using either slot."

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's not what the rule-book says.

Compare the wizard class " If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot." to the sorcerer class "For example, if you know the 1st-level spell burning hands and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast burning hands using either slot."

And if they where multiclassed they would always be able to cast Burning Hands, but they could only cast Magic Missile if they had it prepared. If they later levelled up as sorcerer they could replace Burning Hands with Magic Missile. Then they would always have Magic Missile available and could use a preparation slot for a different spell.

One thing that I'm uncertain about is if the multiclassed sorcerer/wizard could write the spell they have learned as a sorcerer into their wizard spellbook (for the appropriate amount of gold), unlearn it when they level up, then prepare it as one of their wizard spells.

 

[Rossbert]

That's not what the rule-book says.

Compare the wizard class " If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot." to the sorcerer class "For example, if you know the 1st-level spell burning hands and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast burning hands using either slot."

Racial feats just give you the spell which is more like multiclassing spellcaster classes (thematically you are getting spells much like a sorcerer, by virtue of your ancestry). To rule otherwise seems pretty arbitrary that clerics, druids, and wizards in touch with their racial heritage are much more limited in its use compared to bards, paladins, rangers, sorcerers, warlocks and some fighters and rogues. It also makes the multiclassing rules on spell slots seem weird if the suddenly open up on your first level of bard or magic initiate feat.

The official ruling is that you will need to prepare for those three classes, which does make those feats less strong, but you could argue your race lets you cast spells you know (you learn and can cast X cantrip is usually included).

So I just go with slots are slots. If you know how to cast a spell you can cast it if you have the slot open.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

One thing that I'm uncertain about is if the multiclassed sorcerer/wizard could write the spell they have learned as a sorcerer into their wizard spellbook (for the appropriate amount of gold), unlearn it when they level up, then prepare it as one of their wizard spells.

The spellbook feature is explicit about dealing with spells written by wizards, so you can't just jot down whatever sorcerer spells that happen to also be on the wizard list into your spellbook - you'd need to either actually find the spell in written form (scroll or book) to decipher and copy, and use one of your wizard spells added to your spellbook for increasing in wizard level to add the spell to your spellbook.

The official ruling is that you will need to prepare for those three classes...

Yeah, that's what I said.

So I just go with slots are slots. If you know how to cast a spell you can cast it if you have the slot open.

Your house-rule is fine, and it's even fine to share it with others - but you shouldn't act like you are correct someone as to what the official rule is while you are sharing your house-rule, no matter how much less arbitrary you think it is than the official rule.

 

[Rossbert]

The spellbook feature is explicit about dealing with spells written by wizards, so you can't just jot down whatever sorcerer spells that happen to also be on the wizard list into your spellbook - you'd need to either actually find the spell in written form (scroll or book) to decipher and copy, and use one of your wizard spells added to your spellbook for increasing in wizard level to add the spell to your spellbook.

Why on Earth would you want to?

Assuming you know sorcerer spells what would make you want them in a book?

The first part I was wrong on. I was looking just in multiclassing spell slot rules. Not playing much in the way of wizards without some spontaneous casting I had not looked for a Crawford statement until between my posts.

The 'house-rule' depends on how your DM rules the cantrip part of gnome, drow, elf, and tiefling. I will check the wording in a minute (opening my notes deletes web content) but it may have know and cast wording which may, depending on DM open you up to the you can cast any spell you know or prepare language in the magic chapter.

But the first question intrigues me as I play a lot more bards or sorcerers than wizards.

Edit: Reading up confuses the issue more. Just says you know the cantrip and what the ability is for it. Which is appropriate as all cantrips are just known unprepared spells. T could open up the loose interpretation, or not based on the idea that cantrips do not count as spells and thus you cannot cast known SPELLS.