Rain of Blows

[brehobit]

"Hi all, the fighter power, rain of blows, reads:

Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
. Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack.
. Secondary Target: The same or a different target
. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
. Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

So if I read this right, it results in up to 4 hits? I found some discussion on the Wizard boards from a couple of months ago, but I wanted to know if we had an official answer and if not, what people's opinions are.

As I read it, you make an attack against the primary target. If it hits, you make a secondary attack. Then you make your second attack. If that hits, you make a secondary attack (this assuming you meet the requirements). Sound right?

 

[Crazydwarf]

Hmm as I read it, it's only two attacks (assuming the requierments are met)
Cleave for instance is NOT two attacks since the second target automaticly takes damage if the first target is hit.

EDIT: the more I read it the more I change my mind.
After comparing it with other powers I now think it's 2 attacks, 3 if you meet the requierments mentioned.

First attack -> Second "first attack" -> Second attack.
if you dont meet the weapon/dex requierment the second "first" attack does not apply and it skips straight to the "true" second attack.
Otherwise this would be a truly useless power unless the requierments are met. Like this it might make some sense for other fighters to take it (or be useful for a spear fighter that lost his spear and is currently using an axe)

 

[Saeviomagy]

It's either 3 or 4 attacks. The problem is that either of those makes it extremely powerful for an encounter power of it's level.

If it's at most 2, then it may as well say "don't even bother taking this power if you don't use one of the following weapons..."

 

[Runestar]

Seems like 4. Each of your initial 2 attacks is capable of triggering the secondary attack, so if you hit with your 2 attacks, you get to make 2 more.

Looks like a rather useful power for a multiclassed rogue to have...

 

[Crazydwarf]

Well as my sig says, English isn't my first language.
But there is no way I can read 4 attacks into that, it must be 2 as standard and 3 with requierments.

For undexterous non spear/flail/light blade fighters that still makes it a pretty solid lvl 3 encounter power.
For those that meet the requierments its even better, but that demands a rather specialized character, but would be a very good power for them, perhaps even unbalanced.

Compare it with "Fangs of Steel" on page 84. the layout is more clear there I think.
It seems that one should read the bulletpoints in the order they are written, followed like a list.

1. Make the first attack.
2. If you met requierments, and the first attack hit, then make a secondary attack, otherwise skip to 3.
3. Make the second attack. (not dependant on the hit or miss of the first)

 

[Runestar]

The "Weapon:" line is indented under the "Hit:" line. According to the way powers are templated, that means that the weapon line only goes off on a hit. But it means it goes off on each hit.

So as currently templated, Rain of Blows gives you two attacks. For each of those that hit, if you are Dex 15+ and wielding a proper weapon, you get a secondary attack. So that's a total of 4 attacks if you hit with the first two.

 

[Crazydwarf]

Double post

 

[Crazydwarf]

No I doubt it, sorry.
Again compare it to Fangs of steel to see.

Primary Target: One creature

Attack: Strength vs. AC
. Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage. Make a secondary attack.
. Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade or a heavy blade, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Dexterity modifier.
. Secondary Target: One creature adjacent to the primary target and within your melee reach
. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
. Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage
. Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade or a heavy blade, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Dexterity modifier.​

See what they did there, they put the weapon bit in twice.
If Storm of blows would give up to 4 attacks it would have a double weapon input aswell.
Like this:​

Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
. Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack.
. Secondary Target: The same or a different target
. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
. Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
. Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack.
. Secondary Target: The same or a different target
. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC

 

[Hypersmurf]

No I doubt it, sorry.
Again compare it to Fangs of steel to see.

You're taking yet another interpretation - your example would grant an extra secondary attack based on the outcome of the first secondary attack. That's not what happens at all, so rewriting it that way doesn't address the argument being made.

The way Rain of Blows is written, there are two primary attacks.

Let's say you're using a longsword. You use Rain of Blows.

You make a Str vs AC attack. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you aren't using a light blade, a spear, or a flail, there's no secondary attack.

Now you make another Str vs AC attack on the same target. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you aren't using a light blade, a spear, or a flail, there's no secondary attack.

You have now satisfied the "two attacks" portion of the power.

Now let's say you're using a flail. You use Rain of Blows.

You make a Str vs AC attack. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you are using a flail, there's a secondary attack - can be same target or different target, Str vs AC. If you hit, you deal 1[W] + Str damage; if you miss, you don't. Whether you hit or miss with this secondary attack has no bearing on the rest of the power.

Now you make another Str vs AC attack on your original target. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you are using a flail, there's a secondary attack - can be same target or different target, Str vs AC. If you hit, you deal 1[W] + Str damage; if you miss, you don't. Whether you hit or miss with this secondary attack has no bearing on the rest of the power.

Neither secondary attack can trigger another secondary attack; only the two attacks defined in the "Attack" line can trigger a secondary attack. Your rewrite has a secondary attack triggering another secondary attack; the line you added is not only unnecessary, but changes the behaviour of the power (potentially granting six attacks, not four!).

There are two primary attacks, and each of those attacks has the following effect:
1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Crazydwarf]

your example would grant an extra secondary attack based on the outcome of the first secondary attack

Uhm..What ?
No that is not at all what happends, or atleast not what I meant to display.
THIS is what I meant to display:

Now let's say you're using a flail. You use Rain of Blows.

You make a Str vs AC attack. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you are using a flail, there's a secondary attack - can be same target or different target, Str vs AC. If you hit, you deal 1[W] + Str damage; if you miss, you don't. Whether you hit or miss with this secondary attack has no bearing on the rest of the power.

Now you make another Str vs AC attack on your original target. You hit and deal 1[W] + Str damage. Since you are using a flail, there's a secondary attack - can be same target or different target, Str vs AC. If you hit, you deal 1[W] + Str damage; if you miss, you don't. Whether you hit or miss with this secondary attack has no bearing on the rest of the power

Its the part in red there that does not belong in the original text, it's the 4:th attack that mysteriously comes out of nowhere.

The part in yellow is infact not written in at all in the original text...wich it probably should be, without it the secondary attack, hit or miss, by RAW does nothing (except maybe mark the enemy, but I defenetly doubt thats its only purpouse)

I try to read it in all kinds of ways, but the only one that makes sense to me is 2 attacks, where the first might trigger a "secondary" if conditions are filled.
What bugs me is that there is no damage specified for this "secondary" attack.

Another power to compare with is "Weaponsoul dance" on p. 87
it's clearly outlined there step by step what happends.