Raise Dead etc.

[Hand of Evil]

But should the player's EXPECT their pc's to be raised?

No. Period, no.

without risk, results and outcome of death, players will munchin knowing death is not a option, they know they will be back. You reward good roleplaying not stupidity not bad dice roles not inaction. If a player dies and makes it look good (even if bad dice) then you reward as fit!

Note: did the other players want him raised, did they take action? You were DM, they were his fellow players.

 

[barsoomcore]

But should the player's EXPECT their pc's to be raised?

Of course they should. Every time they CAST raise dead, they should expect that whoever they cast it on is raised from the dead.

I don't see why they should expect their character to be raised if nobody casts the spell, however.

 

[Eccles]

If you'd made it clear that you didn't expect temples to raise people, and he accepted this at the time, then it's a bit late to be crying over spilt milk.

Add that to the fact that the dwarf's body was down at the bottom of a very deep chasm - was the other player in a position to go and get the corpse? If not, the entire argument becomes moot anyway.

But to answer your question, I permitted raising at temples as long as there was a priest high enough to do it. And I tried to make it pretty clear where that was the case.

Hell, I actually had a group of mages and clerics selling Raise Dead based 'Life Insurance' things at one point. Mind you, it was the 'Realms...

 

[Mordfane]

Add that to the fact that the dwarf's body was down at the bottom of a very deep chasm - was the other player in a position to go and get the corpse? If not, the entire argument becomes moot anyway.

The body was infact irretrievable. The module states that after the 200' drop, that there is a river that sweeps away anyone who somehow survives into a lightless, airless torrent of churning water. lol. The other pc, being a cleric/dwarf was not in any position to retrieve the the body.

The arguement does not become a moot point however, because of the true ressurection spell.

The player in question also stated ways that he might not have died in the first place. He said that I could have had him land on a ledge part way down and saved his pc from dieing at all, because I'm the DM and have total control over the game.

My point is that, yes I could have. But if I don't, then the answer seems simple... Pull out another character sheet...

Fare Thee Well!

 

[Arnwyn]

The arguement does not become a moot point however, because of the true ressurection spell.

Uh-huh. And? Why was he whining at you, then? Wouldn't it be up to the surviving PC to cast true resurrection if capable or mosey on back to wherever he can get it cast, pay the big bucks, and get it taken care of?

Why was the player complaining to the DM? It's not the DM's concern. He should be talking to the other player instead of bothering you.

The player in question also stated ways that he might not have died in the first place. He said that I could have had him land on a ledge part way down and saved his pc from dieing at all, because I'm the DM and have total control over the game.

Indeed. And you could also make him invincible, have him never die, turn him into a god, let him win the game, hold his itty-bitty hand while he plays, pat him nicely on the head, and give him his baby bottle too.

 

[Mordfane]

Uh-huh. And? Why was he whining at you, then? Wouldn't it be up to the surviving PC to cast true resurrection if capable or mosey on back to wherever he can get it cast, pay the big bucks, and get it taken care of?

The other pc was 6th level as well, and thus, could not raise the dead. I started them with the standard amount of starting gold for their level and they spent it on fancy armor etc. They had very little, if any money left. They would have had to find someone to cast it, who would agree to letting them owe the money, or maybe perform a quest...

 

[HeathcliffeSlocumb]

Player wrong, DM right! Did you put a loaded .357 to the players head, thereby forcing him to cause his PC to enter an obviously dangerous situation? I assume the answer is "no", so there is nobody to blame but the player and the dice...

 

[Tumbler]

My question would be not why did the DM offer the challenge, but why did the player casually try to cross the bridge? If I was a heavily armored dexterity crippled character, I would at least tie myself to something, even if it was just a loop of rope around one of the ropes of the bridge. I'm always amazed (as a DM) when it is my fault that someone dies because of something like this. Or when they run off a ledge in the dark. Or when they fall to -1 hp and fail all of their stabilization checks and not a single PC moves to help them in 9 rounds. Or when they have 5 hp left but charge a minotaur who has already demonstrated reach, "large and in charge," combat reflexes, and haste.

Then they complain that they aren't as emotionally attached to their new characters. Blech.

 

[DiamondB]

I won't discuss my thoughts on the players mindset regarding his character, it looks like enough folks have done so already. I will, however, address your question about how commonplace the return to life spells when I'm DM. In my upcoming Greyhawk campaign I am being quite restrictive on the source of such spells. I won't go into the campaign details, but as it stands only 3 gods have absolute control over death, in particular returning from it to your previous form (Reincarnate is not restricted). Only Nerull, Wee Jas and Pelor provide their clerics with the possibility of casting the Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection spells. Of course if the party can find a cleric (or has a cleric) of the proper deity capable of casting such a spell they can't just cast the spell. Nerull isn't going to grant the spell to just anyone, he's pretty happy with keeping the dead, dead. Wee Jas is also not terribly likely to grant the spell without reason, though said reason won't have to be as convincing as with Nerull. Finally Pelor is the most likely to provide the needed spell and even then the party is going to need to have a good reason and at least be of good alignment (if not outright followers of Pelor). I'm not a killer DM, so if there's a death in the party something went wrong ("stuff" happens) and that's just the way it is, bury the dead and move on. This may sound a bit tough, and some in my group think so, but I've never been a big fan of the return from dead spells, though I think Reincarnate has some interesting value. I also don't think that every deity should be able to grant these spells leaving it in the power fo the gods of Death (and in the case of Pelor, Healing) to manage who can and cannot return from the dead. Of course, in the event that the party wants to travel to the planes (a likely possiblity in my upcoming campaign) to negotiate for the return of a dead character's soul, I'd be willing to work with that.

 

[Henry]

In the game I played in last week, my 4th level fighter charged a 16th level fighter, instead of our group skulking around like we should have; he ticked us off two adventures ago and we decided he was going to die. I charged that fighter, and struck a couple of very powerful blows, but I was full-well expecting to die. In fact, I would have been upset with the DM (Hi, Torm!) if he HADN'T let me die. My Character knew full well what he was doing, was making a fool's charge, and was determined to go down doing the honorable and right thing. We eventually DID kill him, by sacrificing 4 characters, doing loads of small amounts of damage at range, and maneuvering him into a final attack by heavy catapult which hit.

The point is: I knew the odds, took the risks, and was ready to roll up a new character then and there. It was MORE fun than if the DM had decided NOT to kill me, or save me out of hand. (I was later resurrected, but I digress.) Without fear of loss, where is heroism?