Ranger: Scout Preview up!

[CovertOps]

The rule says "A creature can take a free action to use an attack power only once per turn."

But you're right that it was to limit the number of MBA in a turn.

Solution: Change Dual Weapon Attack to "No Action". Voilà.

It does.

I have to disagree with this. If indeed "Power Strike" qualifies for "an attack power" then what you're saying is that in a single standard action you've used TWO "attack powers". The first was your MBA where you rolled that d20 to hit, and the second was "Power Strike". That's like saying my Vanguard Sword does 1d10 extra damage on a charge and counts as a free action attack which is clearly not the intent OR how it actually works.

 

[Jack99]

I have to disagree with this. If indeed "Power Strike" qualifies for "an attack power" then what you're saying is that in a single standard action you've used TWO "attack powers". The first was your MBA where you rolled that d20 to hit, and the second was "Power Strike". That's like saying my Vanguard Sword does 1d10 extra damage on a charge and counts as a free action attack which is clearly not the intent OR how it actually works.

Look up the attack power definition in the RC.

 

[tentfox]

Look up the attack power definition in the RC.

From the compendium "If a power's type isn't stated, the power is an attack power if it includes an attack roll or if it deal damage. Otherwise, it is a utility power."

Colour me wrong.

 

[mageta80]

I have to disagree with this. If indeed "Power Strike" qualifies for "an attack power" then what you're saying is that in a single standard action you've used TWO "attack powers". The first was your MBA where you rolled that d20 to hit, and the second was "Power Strike". That's like saying my Vanguard Sword does 1d10 extra damage on a charge and counts as a free action attack which is clearly not the intent OR how it actually works.

"Power Strike Benefit: You gain the power strike power. Power Strike - Ranger Attack
By pushing yourself beyond your normal limits, you unleash your full wrath against a foe.[...]"

It's the same for the Power Strike of the eFighter.

It's the rule that prevents multiple free action attack powers that is (now) silly, not the Power strike power.

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Going back to the topic of Power Strike and Dual Weapon Attack not being able to be used on the same turn. I would argue that power strike is not an attack in its own right as it does not require an attack roll and the effect says "the triggering attack deals X damage". It seems it is just an effect of making a previous attack deal more damage rather than being an attack in its own right.

The only thing which makes me think it is an attack is it is listed as "Ranger Attack", but really it is a "Ranger Feature" by virtue.

Just my 2 cents.

Still from the RC:

attack: [...]Some attack powers include multiple attacks, and some powers, such as magic missile, are designated as attacks yet lack attack rolls (using sush a power counts as making an attack if the power has a target).

Even from the FAQ:

38. What happens if I use magic missile while benefiting from a power like greater invisibility? Does it count as an attack and would my invisibility end?

Yes, it does, and yes, it would. The initial use of any attack power that has a target line, an attack line, or both counts as making an attack. Because of this fact, using an attack power like the fighter's rain of steel does not count as making an attack, since the power has neither a target line nor an attack line.

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I still think that it's just some RAW silliness (like I already said easily fixable), but it proves that the actual (errated) rules are full of traps for the future design of good ideas.

 

[CovertOps]

It's the rule that prevents multiple free action attack powers that is (now) silly, not the Power strike power.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. That rule was to close a "loophole" where players would stacks lots of free action attacks and have sick burst damage. It's the same restriction as only one Immediate action per round. You also don't want a player saying "I use all 4 of my Power Strike's and add 4[W] to that attack so there's a good reason to limit both, but in this case they should specifically be allowed together. Personally I'd think they should fix "Dual Strike" rather than trying to fix all the triggered ePowers that add 1[W].

 

[TerraDave]

It was in Strategic Review...

The dmg bonus vs all those bipeds was le cool awesome.

They where balanced (as was the paladin) with ability score prereqs. (14 wis, 15 con, something like that). 2E was a massive nerfing.

As for this guy. I feel sort of disapointed. Don't know if its the fact they could have an 8 str and still be effective (though I guess they could boost their con, in the old school vien), the two weapon fighting, the fact that, as I said upthread, those put together makes it feel more like a swashbuckler. Something about it...its at the bottom of the list for me in terms of the essentials classes I have seen so far.

 

[mageta80]

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. That rule was to close a "loophole" where players would stacks lots of free action attacks and have sick burst damage. It's the same restriction as only one Immediate action per round.

I should have said that the rule is not necessary for the Essentials builds. Precautions were taken to avoid such problems (limits on magic items, on multi-attack powers,...)

I agree with you that stacking free/immediate action attacks must be restricted, but I think the rule was simply forgotten in the design processus and it interfere now in a foolish situation.

It is clear (for me) that the Dual Weapon Attack of the Scout is his striker feature, afterall if a Slayer can already use PS with a big 2H weapon and adding his Dex mod to damage, why not the scout?

You also don't want a player saying "I use all 4 of my Power Strike's and add 4[W] to that attack so there's a good reason to limit both, but in this case they should specifically be allowed together.

I don't see the problem: Power Strike is already limited to 1/turn. You must wait level 13 to get 4 use of it (with the right PP). Even if you could use all of them at low level, a non-martial e-class can already burn all his daily/encounter powers in a nova turn if he wants.

Basic classes have low-level encounter powers that deals 3[W] if not 4[W].

At high levels it is different (burning 4 PS at + 2[W] each in one shot... Maybe not. No.)

Personally I'd think they should fix "Dual Strike" rather than trying to fix all the triggered ePowers that add 1[W].

Agreed. It's been years I've waited for the Dire Radiance fix. (Crossing Fingers)

 

[TerraDave]

Listened to the podcast and realized why this duel wielder is in there!

HoFK also has the drow.

 

[Mengu]

Listened to the podcast and realized why this duel wielder is in there!

HoFK also has the drow.

Except, scimitar is not a light blade or off-hand weapon.

PHB Two weapon Ranger gave us the two big weapon archetype, MP1 tempest gave us the two small weapon archetype, Scout gives us the one big one small weapon option, though I foresee more rapier and short sword scouts, than the heavy blade/light blade or big/small axe combo.

For those who want to go with Weapon Master, Bastard Sword/Hand Axe is a reasonably good option too for the scout. You get the accuracy of the bastard sword, and the damage bonus of the handaxe, not to mention, you can throw it in a pinch, or be human and go with throw and stab.