(RANT) (longish) A player wishes to drop

[buzzard]

Fathead, I've been in the situation of joining a group. They were 8th level except one that was 7th about to go to 8th. I came in at 6th. It blows chunks. Big chunks that you didn't have the foresight to chew particularly well the first time.

Really, gaming is not work or college, and one shouldn't be needlessly be penalized while playing. If your player with a fighter decides he'd rather be a druid, why punish him for changing?

I have no sympathy whatsoever fo this view. People deserve some amount of credit for sticking to a character. They also deserve credit for 'paying their dues' with their character, so new people should not be able to come in ahead of veterans. I'd probably manage to be a bit annoyed that some guy joins the game and surpasses the people who have been there for years.

Especially at higher levels, it is easier to make a character that you really want all at once rather than building him up level by level. For example, if you were builing a 12th level wizard, would you take toughness as a feat? A first level one is quite likely to do so, but nobody things of wasting a feat on that if they're 12th. Say I was making a high level fighter/monk type. Building from scratch would be difficult. Starting at 10th, I would take those four levels of fighter and get weapon finess unarmed, weapon focus unarmed, and weapon spec unarmed, but never take improved unarmed combat, since I know I'd be a monk later. Playing from 1st would make that extremely unlikely.

I also have had experiences where gamers have ditched characters simply because they were not quite twinked enough.

Though, back to the subject at hand.
A) 13 years- BFD if she plays in a way that doesn't work at the table it counts for squat.
B) She sounds like she has a beef with your DMing style, so let her find a new one.
C) Looks like the solution has already presented itself and she is leaving, it ain't broke so don't fix it.

buzzard

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Sounds like a drama queen in action. Let her go.

Anyone who will actually tell you she has "gamed all over the world" is on a massive ego trip. (Unless someone can tell me the experience is different when sitting at a table on a different continent)

The whole doesnt know the rules but has to be the center of attention is the clincher. It reminds me of some Vampire players who transfered over to DnD. They couldnt get the rules to save their life but they sure were dramatic.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Sounds like a drama queen in action. Let her go.

Anyone who will actually tell you she has "gamed all over the world" is on a massive ego trip. (Unless someone can tell me the experience is different when sitting at a table on a different continent)

The whole doesnt know the rules but has to be the center of attention is the clincher. It reminds me of some Vampire players who transfered over to DnD. They couldnt get the rules to save their life but they sure were dramatic.

Doc that's actually pretty funny. Her favorite game system is actually vampire and the storyteller system in general! Maybe that should have tipped me off that there would be angst coming my way at some point in the future.

This thread is actually making me feel a little better about this whole affair. Now i just need to talk to the rest of the group and get them to come to some form of aggreement on how they wish to handle this. I refuse to make a decision without at least talking to everybody first.

Edit: spelling

 

[Impeesa]

Want to make your situation not seem quite so bad? Have a sit-down, and hear my (highly condensed) tale.

Imagine a girl very similar to the one you described. Except she's only average at roleplaying, and complains about gender bias and us (us being myself and the GM, the most rules-knowledgable people) being poor teachers in general when it comes to the rules. But this was a Robotech game, she and I joined at the same time, both with no prior experience with the system... if anything, the GM favored her, but like your player, she never cracked a book of her own accord. She's the same in every other game.

So last fall this same Robotech game finally implodes after several years due to a bunch of players not being willing to commit to a regular schedule (not her though.... her attendance was generally second only to my spotless record, I'll give her that ). The GM is quite bitter about that and some other things, and swears off GMing indefinitely. That was probably my favorite campaign ever. So this spring... my girlfriend (joined the game later on) gets home for the summer from being away at university. These two girls, and one other mutual female friend who was also in the game before, decide they need more 'girl time', and would also like to work on their 'gaming skills.' So, since the former GM massively favors her, they convince him to drag the game up and run just for the three of them, plus one other girl who's completely new to gaming. This was all done behind my back.

Worst part is, their reasons for dragging up this particular game instead of starting a new one are pretty flimsy anyways: they're not going to get any more familiar with the rules if they just continue playing like they always have (as opposed to making a new character themselves, possibly in a different system), they're dragging the poor GM into some sort of a gaming eunuch role, etc.

Worst part is some of the horrible accusations she made when I took it up with her - basically accusing me of gender bias, bias against her in particular, lumping me in with some other guys we know and gamed with who'd treated her like in the past...

Yeah... could be worse.

--Impeesa--

 

[dark2112]

You forgot to mention that one of the ladies left the group because of personal issues with one of the male players, and that the GM did want to include you, but wished to avoid hurt feelings for the ones who were inevitably going to be left out...

And yeah, I may seem to be the GM eunuch, but I think I've gotten complacent over the years with my GM style, so I'm working on re-defnining it

Note: The mysterious extra newbie player was news to me as well. Heh.

 

[LGodamus]

Wish her well, but dont send her my way; she wouldnt fit in.

Seriously though...sometimes people just have incompatible styles, and its best to let it go without anyone gettin their feelings hurt

 

[TenseAlcyoneus]

Actually, I think she may be in the right here. You sound like a rules lawyer turned DM. There are a lot of players, me included, that think that the rules ought to reinforce role-playing not the other way around.

Maybe your team really ISN't any good at role-playing. I currently game with a group of players that make almost all decisions based upon how the rules can be optimized, forget the character and its history. This seems to be the norm with inexperienced groups.

Heck, I've seen it go so far that one player character cast a Hold Person on my character. The DM argued that this was not a big deal (Even though it made my character helpless!) and my character ought not be upset. Why? Because I've slept around the other character and that made me helpless, too! You see, me as the player knew that the other character do harm.

Wht happens is that a kind of RPG Consequentialism sets in whereby the CHARACTER's perceptions are supposed to match the PLAYER's perception. It's more than metagaming, it's defining role-playing AS metagaming.

Some of us don't see it that way.

 

[pogre]

Group chemistry is an odd thing.

People like to game in different styles. They should seek groups that fit their styles and play with them.

Wish her well - let her go.

You did the right thing.

 

[Ravellion]

“Don’t us any divination, the DM will only screw you with it or make it so obscure you’ll never figure it out.”?! .......that comment alone would be enough to earn my ire.

I was thinking the exact same thing KS. It is metagaming of the worst order, and goes right against all things that should be considered good roleplaying (ie. making your characters do what would be consistent with their character's personalities).

I am guessing all the raving about how great she was were made by groups of all male gamers?

Rav

 

[Ravellion]

Some of us don't see it that way.

Well, two problems:

1) She metagamed heavily.

2) If everyone knows the rules, the rules don't get in the way as much. If 30 seconds out of every minute are explanation of rules (that have been made before), you aren't spending that time roleplaying, no?

Rav