NOTE: This thread was saved specifically because, as of October 29, 2015, it was the oldest thread on the WotC Previous Editions Character Optimization forum. The original post was dated March 15, 2008 at 1:54:22 Pacific Time.
Originally posted by uulbaan:
I'm building a drow using two-weapon fighting with a Rapier and a Scimitar. I would like to have some suggestions concerning the optimization of this combat style.
All the variation are welcome (Classes, feats, Weapon material, etc).
I assume in every cases we will have Oversized two-weapon fighting.
Currently I have this, but I am not completely satisfied with the result:
Ranger 3 lvl, Fighter Alt Class drow Hit-and-Run Tactic (p.58 DotU) 2 lvl, then he is going for the Pc Kinslayer 1 lvl (DofU) = ECL 8.
Feat:
- Two-weapon fighting
- Track
- Endurance
- Oversized two-weapon fighting
- Chosen Foe
- Unspeakable vow
- Vow of vengeance (Elf)
- Diehard
Class feature worth mentioning for this topic:
Favored Enemy: Elf
Ability Score (My DM is crasy he want us to play with 40 pts so...)
STR: 17
DEX: 20
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 10
- Rapier and Scimitar MW
- Mithral Breastplate
Originally posted by x-codes:
There's a reason you're not satisfied with the result. There is absolutely nothing special happening here.
I suggest you read the Swift Hunter Handbook and use weapons more compatible with that idea. If you want more drow flavor in your weapons, then use a Hand Crossbow to attack from short range when you can't close.
Originally posted by uulbaan:
That is true, but it is also the challenge I have with this. Is there a way to make something happening?
After reflection, taking the Tempest Pc could help a little.
Originally posted by littlefreak_dup:
If you want to use a Rapier and a Scimitar you should try to optimize their sweet spot the Threat Range of 3 numbers (18-20), you need Disciple of Dispater PrC to extend it and make something happen.
Something like:
Warblade 3/Swashbuckler 3/Disciple of Dispater 8/xxx 6
Feats that you need:
1) Disciple of Darkness
2) Combat Expertise
3) Power Attack
4) Improved Critical
the rest is open (maybe TWF three?), with this you'll have a Threat Range of 9-20 x2 with your Weapons of Choice.
With Battle Ardor Critical Confirmation of the Warblade you'll add your Int to confirm Crit Threats, also to Damage due to Swashbuckler. So max your Int. then make sure to grab Blood in the Water Stance, everytime you score a Crit you'll get a cummulative +1 on Atk and Dmg, if you dont score a crit in one minute (10 rounds) you'll need to start over (but that wont happen)
there, thats nice, hope that helps, let me see my books and I'll may come back with some more suggestions
Originally posted by uulbaan:
Aaaah the road you found is very interesting Littlefreak!
I never had in mind the nice ability Disciple of Dispater had and it stack well with the Warblade one which I didn't knew either.
I had the critical factor in mind, but I didn't knew how to take advantage of it since the different type of weapon wasn't allowing an easy solution found with the feat Improved Critical.
The way you approach the problem highlight also a second thing.
We can make something happen by taking two different ways I think:
A) Optimized the Critical rang like you did (Look then for the feat «Stagging Critical» in DotU p.52 when you fall into this category with a character)
B) Optimized Two-weapon Fighting.
That's why the Pc Tempest came to my mind and seem to improved the character a bit. I notice also that Weapon Versatility on the Pc Tempest will allow me to apply the feat improved Critical on both weapon. I think the Tempest is a win, but, still, your combinaison is original and well thought.
Don't forget, you need the feat Oversized Two-Weapon fighting.
The ultimate combinaison someone could find probably would be one that would succeed to take advantage of both factors.
Your solution take it full potential at level 10 when the character reach Iron Power.
Originally posted by littlefreak_dup:
Tempest would be nice but it is feat hungry, (needs the spring attack three) and due to the lot of feats you need to disciple of dispater that are merelly prereq. there wont be much extra space. if you can grab flaws then you might consider it.
I think TWF wold be nice but you should use two rapiers or two scimitars, for some reason I cant imagine someone using two rapiers, but if you do play with scimitars AND be a drow... well. you know
also, there is a little something with this combo that is really really nasty. but is open to DM interpretation I think, or maybe doesnt work RAW but it certainly is unclear. I dont remember...
With the Aptitude Weapon Special Ability for weapons (with a low price of a +1 bonus) of tome of battle, weapons that have this special ability are afected by feats that work with a particular weapon. If you combine your scimitars (maybe kukris for not having to use oversized TWF?) with the weapon style feat Lightning Mace (from Complete Warrior) everytime you score a crit youll get an aditional attack with the same bonus, you'll need combat Reflexess and Weapon Focus for this and then you'll be done.
yup, I like it.
"With this... I took down an army"-
Arios of the Last Stance
Originally posted by uulbaan:
I'm building a drow using two-weapon fighting with a Rapier and a Scimitar. I would like to have some suggestions concerning the optimization of this combat style.
All the variation are welcome (Classes, feats, Weapon material, etc).
I assume in every cases we will have Oversized two-weapon fighting.
Currently I have this, but I am not completely satisfied with the result:
Ranger 3 lvl, Fighter Alt Class drow Hit-and-Run Tactic (p.58 DotU) 2 lvl, then he is going for the Pc Kinslayer 1 lvl (DofU) = ECL 8.
Feat:
- Two-weapon fighting
- Track
- Endurance
- Oversized two-weapon fighting
- Chosen Foe
- Unspeakable vow
- Vow of vengeance (Elf)
- Diehard
Class feature worth mentioning for this topic:
Favored Enemy: Elf
Ability Score (My DM is crasy he want us to play with 40 pts so...)
STR: 17
DEX: 20
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 10
- Rapier and Scimitar MW
- Mithral Breastplate
Originally posted by x-codes:
There's a reason you're not satisfied with the result. There is absolutely nothing special happening here.
I suggest you read the Swift Hunter Handbook and use weapons more compatible with that idea. If you want more drow flavor in your weapons, then use a Hand Crossbow to attack from short range when you can't close.
Originally posted by uulbaan:
That is true, but it is also the challenge I have with this. Is there a way to make something happening?
After reflection, taking the Tempest Pc could help a little.
Originally posted by littlefreak_dup:
If you want to use a Rapier and a Scimitar you should try to optimize their sweet spot the Threat Range of 3 numbers (18-20), you need Disciple of Dispater PrC to extend it and make something happen.
Something like:
Warblade 3/Swashbuckler 3/Disciple of Dispater 8/xxx 6
Feats that you need:
1) Disciple of Darkness
2) Combat Expertise
3) Power Attack
4) Improved Critical
the rest is open (maybe TWF three?), with this you'll have a Threat Range of 9-20 x2 with your Weapons of Choice.
With Battle Ardor Critical Confirmation of the Warblade you'll add your Int to confirm Crit Threats, also to Damage due to Swashbuckler. So max your Int. then make sure to grab Blood in the Water Stance, everytime you score a Crit you'll get a cummulative +1 on Atk and Dmg, if you dont score a crit in one minute (10 rounds) you'll need to start over (but that wont happen)
there, thats nice, hope that helps, let me see my books and I'll may come back with some more suggestions
Originally posted by uulbaan:
Aaaah the road you found is very interesting Littlefreak!
I never had in mind the nice ability Disciple of Dispater had and it stack well with the Warblade one which I didn't knew either.
I had the critical factor in mind, but I didn't knew how to take advantage of it since the different type of weapon wasn't allowing an easy solution found with the feat Improved Critical.
The way you approach the problem highlight also a second thing.
We can make something happen by taking two different ways I think:
A) Optimized the Critical rang like you did (Look then for the feat «Stagging Critical» in DotU p.52 when you fall into this category with a character)
B) Optimized Two-weapon Fighting.
That's why the Pc Tempest came to my mind and seem to improved the character a bit. I notice also that Weapon Versatility on the Pc Tempest will allow me to apply the feat improved Critical on both weapon. I think the Tempest is a win, but, still, your combinaison is original and well thought.
Don't forget, you need the feat Oversized Two-Weapon fighting.
The ultimate combinaison someone could find probably would be one that would succeed to take advantage of both factors.
Your solution take it full potential at level 10 when the character reach Iron Power.
Originally posted by littlefreak_dup:
Tempest would be nice but it is feat hungry, (needs the spring attack three) and due to the lot of feats you need to disciple of dispater that are merelly prereq. there wont be much extra space. if you can grab flaws then you might consider it.
I think TWF wold be nice but you should use two rapiers or two scimitars, for some reason I cant imagine someone using two rapiers, but if you do play with scimitars AND be a drow... well. you know
also, there is a little something with this combo that is really really nasty. but is open to DM interpretation I think, or maybe doesnt work RAW but it certainly is unclear. I dont remember...
With the Aptitude Weapon Special Ability for weapons (with a low price of a +1 bonus) of tome of battle, weapons that have this special ability are afected by feats that work with a particular weapon. If you combine your scimitars (maybe kukris for not having to use oversized TWF?) with the weapon style feat Lightning Mace (from Complete Warrior) everytime you score a crit youll get an aditional attack with the same bonus, you'll need combat Reflexess and Weapon Focus for this and then you'll be done.
yup, I like it.
"With this... I took down an army"-
Arios of the Last Stance
