D&D 4E Realistic Strength and Carrying Capacity for 4E

[Roman]

That's essentially due to a chemical governor that keeps our muscles from operating at full capacity most all of the time.

and

Bear in mind that this explanation came from a molecular biologist and I'm just a history major.

But his explanation was that our body produces a chemical(s) that keeps our muscles from working at full strength, restricting them to a reduced output most of the time. During fight or flight reactions people can at times operate much closer to full capacity as some of the components of adrenaline and others released during those times can partially counteract the effects.

This is very interesting. Why, though, would our body produce a chemical to hamper the functioning of our muscles. It seems to me like that would be evolutionarily maladaptive. Perhaps wild animals simply have bigger muscles, rather than their muscles being more efficient per unit cross-sectional area.

 

[mmadsen]

Why, though, would our body produce a chemical to hamper the functioning of our muscles. It seems to me like that would be evolutionarily maladaptive.

I don't think it does -- not in that straightforward all-bad sense.

Perhaps wild animals simply have bigger muscles, rather than their muscles being more efficient per unit cross-sectional area.

Humans are remarkably well adapted for endurance, compared to most other animals -- which makes them poorly adapted for peak strength and power.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

That fits with his explanation that by not running for peak output human muscles tended to fatigue slower than many animals. He also opined that it might have some relation to our unusual lifespan compared to animals of similar mass by slowing down general wear and tear on the muscles and thus the organ systems that supply them.

 

[mmadsen]

Do we really want realistic Strength? Most large predators are far stronger then humans. Hard to be a hero when lions, tigers and bears are almost as dangerous to your PC as Dragons.

It's not heroic to fight a lion?

 

[JDJblatherings]

It's not heroic to fight a lion?

It's very heroic, but they are also tougher by a longshot then the rules present them. STR 21 ...Isn't very impressive for an animal that can snatch a man off a horse and run a couple of miles with him kicking, screaming and stabbing away.

Most of the large predators are amazingly more powerful then humans...a +5 STr bonus isn't all that amazign in D&D. If Strengths and masses were accurately reflected in D&D, good luck getting past 1st level (even if you start with 3 HD).


Sometimes a little less reality is more fun.

 

[Roman]

I don't think it does -- not in that straightforward all-bad sense.
Humans are remarkably well adapted for endurance, compared to most other animals -- which makes them poorly adapted for peak strength and power.

A very interesting article - I read another article on humans being among the nature's best long distance runners, but it did not cite genetic evidence and muscle structure, but rather adaptations for losing heat and a gait that preserves energy. The two mesh together well.

I guess we have more slow-twitch fibres rather than high-twitch ones than is the norm for most mammals.

That fits with his explanation that by not running for peak output human muscles tended to fatigue slower than many animals.

True, but judging from the above-linked article, I think that is a function of the high proportion of slow-twitch fibres rather than a chemical that counteracts muscle function. I am no biologist, though, so any info he provided is liable to be more accurate than my conjectures.

He also opined that it might have some relation to our unusual lifespan compared to animals of similar mass by slowing down general wear and tear on the muscles and thus the organ systems that supply them.

Now, that is VERY interesting!

 

[mmu1]

A chimpanzee is roughly halfling size and much, much stronger than a normal man.

Actually, they're not even close. Chimps vary in size a lot, but on average they clock in at around 100lbs (and top out at around 130lbs, heavier than a lot of humans) compared to just 35lbs for a typical 3E halfling.

As far as realistic strength goes, I think the numbers tend to be a bit generous, but not by too much - except when it comes to the "lift overhead" category. A 100lbs is a lot to shoulder-press when it's in the form of a barbell, and a huge amount when it's not necessarily in a convenient shape and has to be lifted off the ground.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

True, but judging from the above-linked article, I think that is a function of the high proportion of slow-twitch fibres rather than a chemical that counteracts muscle function. I am no biologist, though, so any info he provided is liable to be more accurate than my conjectures.

Could've been his "chemical" analogy was a simplification of the biochemical and genetic factors that cause the inflated proportion of slow-twitch fibers. Given he was responding to the entire class and some of them would've had trouble with a more in-depth explanation that could be it, which is too bad because I would've loved to get more than a short news blurb from someone who actually understood what he's talking about.

Now, that is VERY interesting!

I know the idea really interested me. According to him they got into depth on it in one of the 400 level classes but I was already locked into a major and didn't want to take two or three more classes cross-discipline just to find out about one interesting tidbit.

 

[green slime]

During rescue diving training, the instructor paired me (6'7", 220 lbs) with the girl (5'6", 115 lbs) in the group. Part of the training was an exercise, were she had to carry me up out of the water, fireman style. And that was while we were both wearing our drysuits. Man, was she pissed, but she did it.

The instructors point was that you can't count on having a dive buddy of similar weight, and she needed to know she could do it. It wasn't "just a few feet" either. Did me proud, that little terrier!

But as for realistic numbers... I'll be happy when Intelligence scores reflect when RL IQ's allow people to cast fireballs. Intelligence 13 is just so unrealistic...