Recent Star Wars Saga chat session with designers

[ValhallaGH]

Quite true, in my experience, PC's put ranks in skills for one of a handful of reasons.

1. It's a skill key to their character concept (like Pilot for a starfighter ace, or Diplomacy for a negotiator-oriented Jedi Consular), and they not only max it out, they do every trick they can to get Synergy bonuses, take feats to boost the skills, and go for PrC's and class abilities that augment the skill or take advantage of it.

2. They max them out if they are a class skill, as it's something useful and it makes sense for the character, and they've got the points to do it.

3. They get enough ranks in a skill to meet a PrC requirement (or a feat requirement or some other reason to take the skill), but don't take more ranks unless it's really needed.

4. They get a rank in it so they can use a Trained Only skill, and get enough synergy and ability score bonuses, and maybe an extra rank or two, to perform a few common tasks they want to do with that skill.

5. They start with a few ranks in them as a background/character concept thing, maybe for roleplaying, but never raise it past there.

All of which, unfortunately, are the only reasons to invest into most skills using the standard d20 skill rules.

There's no reason to have 500 ranks in balance when 8 will let you do everything you'll need to do. Same idea with Knowledge, Perform, Climb, Tumble, Craft and every other skill with a static DC; once you get to the point where you can do it reliably, there is no further incentive to invest into a skill unless that skill uses opposed checks.

What I'd like to see, as I implied earlier in the thread, is something like this idea, in which characters choose which skills they are trained in, and how thoroughly trained they are, and those skills stay at that same relative level. New skills can be acquired and previous choices upgraded as a character progresses in level but no longer is constant maintenance to the exclusion of other options required. Personally, I find it to be a wonderful way of dealing with all the various issues that have been raised with the hypothetical and previous skill systems.

 

[SteveC]

On the issue of skills, I think any time you simplify rules, you inherently make some people unhappy. In a system I'm working on now, I give you three levels of training, which correspond to max ranks, 2/3 max ranks and 1/3 max ranks (so 4/2/1 for a level one character, going to 8/5/2 at level 5 and 13/8/4 at level 10). That seemed to satisfy most of my crew, but any time you take out granularity, you're going to lose some folks who want the ability to spend those skill points exactly in the manner they wish.

Is the trade off worth it? For me, the ability to design a level 10 character in 5 minutes makes it worth it for me. I think if you removed the "use only when trained" and "5 ranks = synergy bonus" rules, you'd see people more willing to take a basic approach to skills. It's the specific nature of the rules that are making people concerned with the details: make them less specific and you'll get less concern over the small details.

--Steve

 

[Shane H]

Speedier Combat?

I feel happy about the changes in store for the Saga Edition. I'm glad that anything that feels like filling out tax forms is pruned (namely, selection and tabulation of skill ranks), while keeping the game crunchy and solid.

Can Moridin or Owen speak more about how the Saga Edition will speed up combat?

Shane

 

[RodneyThompson]

Can Moridin or Owen speak more about how the Saga Edition will speed up combat?

I can't say much about how, but I can give you a little anecdote. Yesterday we ran a marathon playtest of the game, running tests on characters level 1-4 with combats designed to be at, below, and above the character levels. At one point, we had a combat featuring the five player characters (non-Jedi Force user, scout, scoundrel, soldier, noble), 11 Gamorrean thugs, and a Trandoshan bounty hunter. Combat went fast, to say the least. Gamorreans were dropping like flies, the bounty hunter was sniping from the ramp of his ship, and the heroes were dodging blaster bolts left and right. It was pretty sweet. Now, granted, it was low-level combat, but even with the use of Force powers and the like the combat was done pretty quickly.

Playtesting continues (as yesterday's session revealed some heretofore unseen problems with combat) but it's shaping up nicely. The core of the combat system is very quick (while still allowing you a lot of flexibility in your choice of actions), and I think it's going to be very effective at keeping high-level play speedy.

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

Star Ships?

Do you forsee utilizing the current rule books that are out and "converting" them to SW Saga Edition, or do you believe the SW Saga Edition will get books to provide additional support?

Thanks,

Taren Nighteyes

 

[RodneyThompson]

Do you forsee utilizing the current rule books that are out and "converting" them to SW Saga Edition, or do you believe the SW Saga Edition will get books to provide additional support?

Thanks,

Taren Nighteyes

Keeping in mind that I'm not involved in the decisions behind what books get made and which ones don't, I hope that both are correct. Your RCR-compatible material won't burst into flames (though it will certainly need some tweaking) when Saga Edition comes out, and SE should present a lot of new and unique options for players. I doubt very seriously that WotC would just rehash the books from the RCR series.

 

[Taren Nighteyes]

Keeping in mind that I'm not involved in the decisions behind what books get made and which ones don't, I hope that both are correct. Your RCR-compatible material won't burst into flames (though it will certainly need some tweaking) when Saga Edition comes out, and SE should present a lot of new and unique options for players. I doubt very seriously that WotC would just rehash the books from the RCR series.

Understood - thanks for the unsure reassurances

A nice big hardback book of ship building, ships, and ship combat would be good expansion (Do you hear me WOTC????? Do you????)!!!!!!

Taren Nighteyes

 

[scourger]

How will it do for an all-jedi game?

Will there be an adventure (or preferably series of adventures) released?

 

[Dragonblade]

Hey Moridin,

It always bugged me that a ship's defense was based mostly on size. That works fine for capital ships which can't really dodge. But for starfighters I have always felt that the Defense (i.e. Armor Class) should be based directly on the pilot's skill with a bonus or penalty based on the speed and maneuverability of the ship in general.

Do the new rules address this?

 

[RodneyThompson]

How will it do for an all-jedi game?

Will there be an adventure (or preferably series of adventures) released?

To the first question: Fine, I suppose. If that's the kind of game you want to run, there's nothing in the game to stop you. I would even make the argument that you'd end up with a more diverse set of abilities in the group under Saga Edition.

As to the second question, I honestly don't know...but as people that read my blog know, I certainly hope so!