Recent Star Wars Saga chat session with designers

[Pbartender]

And yeah, VP/WP is a good system. That doesn't mean its necessarily the best fit for Star Wars, though. I like the system, but I think the new system works better at creating fast, cinematic combat that mirrors what we see in the movies.

See, I always thought that VP/WP did a fine job of emulating the movies... I used to have some examples from the movies themselves, alongside explainations of why the scene would work the way it did with VP/WP. I'll have to look it up, and see if I've still got it around here somewhere.

 

[SteveC]

Everyone won't have the exact same skills. There are still several factors that go into determining what your skill bonus is. We have just done away with skill points.

I'd like to ask that everyone that is so up in arms about this change actually try out the new system before declaring it a "bad design decision." There are a lot of reasons we went that route, and I think it works just fine in the context of the game.

Hey, thanks for stopping by!

I have a question that I'm not sure you'll be able to answer at this point, but I figure I'll ask it anyway. In the chat log, it is said that using the force in certain ways requires them to "recharge" between uses. This sounds something like the system used in the Tome of Battle, which I have become quite fond of. Are the two systems similar in how they work?

--Steve

 

[Abulia]

I'd like to ask that everyone that is so up in arms about this change actually try out the new system before declaring it a "bad design decision." There are a lot of reasons we went that route, and I think it works just fine in the context of the game.

I was just lurking and passing by but I felt I had to chime in here real quick.

As someone who has had the good fortune to work with Rodney, anyone who isn't willing to at least give him the benefit of the doubt is making a grave error. Rodney is an accomplished writer and designer in his own right -- coupled with his passion for SW and desire to deliver a first-rate product -- immediately validates this project in my mind. I can not think of a better person to be intimately involved in a retooling of the Star Wars RPG.

Carry on!

 

[RodneyThompson]

See, I always thought that VP/WP did a fine job of emulating the movies... I used to have some examples from the movies themselves, alongside explainations of why the scene would work the way it did with VP/WP. I'll have to look it up, and see if I've still got it around here somewhere.

I'm not arguing that VP/WP can work. It obviously does. However, as pointed out above, the system does have some flaws that cause some difficulty during gameplay. Really, all VP/WP boils down to is a division in the hit point pool with additional effects depending on where, in the division, you fall. While I like the "crits go straight to Wound Points" mechanic for something like, say, Spycraft, I don't think it models what we see in the movies. Given that a blaster pistol does 3d6, a critical hit can, potentially, drop high-level characters in one shot. Not only that, but VP/WP brings up some issues with things like armor (DR to Wound Points only) and Force Powers (VP consumed for activating the Force).

Now, if we were replacing VP/WP with the D&D hit point system, I'd agree with you that we'd be making a mistake. There are a lot of things that VP/WP does well (model physical vs. fatigue damage, faster healing between battles, allow for easy-to-kill mooks) that we wouldn't want to lose. So, we don't.

I don't want people to jump to any conclusions. We're not so blind or foolish as to ignore the benefits of a system and we try and implement as many of those advantages in other ways. As a result, we're doing some new things with the aforementioned condition track as well as the way things like damage and healing work to ensure that yes, Virginia, the system does work for Star Wars.

So, try not to let your imaginations run wild to the most foolish things we could do with the game. Yes, as someone pointed it out above, "What do you expect when you only let out trickles of information." Would you really be happier if they released NO information prior to the release of the book? They certainly can't release all of it.

When one of the previews reveals that Ewoks are now the most powerful race in the game, well, then you can start your Rebellion. But perhaps I've said too much....*puffs on his pipe*

 

[RodneyThompson]

I have a question that I'm not sure you'll be able to answer at this point, but I figure I'll ask it anyway. In the chat log, it is said that using the force in certain ways requires them to "recharge" between uses. This sounds something like the system used in the Tome of Battle, which I have become quite fond of. Are the two systems similar in how they work?

Hey hey. As for the Force, I can't say much. I can say that the Force technically falls under a couple of different mechanics, but the core Force power system is something WotC is not ready to reveal yet. When they do, though, I think you'll like it.

 

[RodneyThompson]

I was just lurking and passing by but I felt I had to chime in here real quick.

Wow, thanks for the kinds words, Don. And long time no see! I appreciate the good faith. That being said, I don't mind people having concerns...no game designer produces solid gold every time, and I know for a fact I don't even come close. Still, I take it as a good sign that they let some of their biggest Star Wars geeks work on this new game. I can honestly say it's been a dream project for me.

 

[humble minion]

The big problem with crit lethality in Star Wars wasn't the fault of VP/WP so much as a gross imbalance between attack and defence. BAB progression far outstripped Defense bonus progression, and on top of that, Jedi could boost their attack bonus to ludicrous levels with Enhance Ability, Battlemind, self-crafted lightsabers and Force Point expenditure. The only way to increase Defense was by burning almost your entire feat allocation on the Lightsaber Defense and Defensive Martial Arts chain, and by bumping up your Dex with Enhance Ability, and even this simply couldn't keep up. And on top of that, there was no mechanism for using Force Points to (for example) negate crits. The result of all this was that regardless of whether you scored a crit or not, lightsaber duels would be over in a round or two simply because everyone hit all the time, lightsabers average around 18vp/hit at higher levels, and nobody has that many VP to work with.

I'm glad it's being addressed in the new addition, though to be frank I won't be buying it because both I and my group have burnt ourselves out on Star Wars RP through wrestling with the current edition for far too long. I just hope (and given Moridin's record, have reasonable confidence) that the next iteration of the game will make the spirit and themes of the Star Wars movies as its starting point, and work the ruleset to match that rather than the other way around. If the authors haven't already, I'd encourage them to pick up the Buffy RPG for an example of a licensed cinematic RPG done right. Hell, i'd encourage them to blatantly steal Buffy's Hero Points system, while they're at it...

 

[RodneyThompson]

humble minion, you'll be happy to know that those are all issues we address in the new system. Or, I should say, have tried to address, in a variety of ways.

 

[Pbartender]

I'm not arguing that VP/WP can work. It obviously does. However, as pointed out above, the system does have some flaws that cause some difficulty during gameplay. Really, all VP/WP boils down to is a division in the hit point pool with additional effects depending on where, in the division, you fall. While I like the "crits go straight to Wound Points" mechanic for something like, say, Spycraft, I don't think it models what we see in the movies. Given that a blaster pistol does 3d6, a critical hit can, potentially, drop high-level characters in one shot. Not only that, but VP/WP brings up some issues with things like armor (DR to Wound Points only) and Force Powers (VP consumed for activating the Force).

I, on the other hand, think it modeled what we see in the movies just fine... Simply a difference of opinion.

Interesting that you should mention Spycraft. Since Spycraft handles most of those problems in a much different fashion than Star Wars currently does... Critical hits do go straight to Wounds, but are activated by spending an Action Die instead of a confirming attack roll. Cricital hits can only be made angainst PCs by important NPCs -- that is to say, in the movies Vader, Dooku, General Greivous, the Emperor, or Boba Fett can activate critical hits, but your average thug (Greedo), stormtrooper or Imperial officer can't. DR from armor works against VP as well as WP. Those non-important mooks use a damage save, rather than VP/WP, so the PCs get a chance to mow them down.

Admittedly, their old psionic rules did power psionic abilities through VP consumption, but if the rate of consumption isn't too high, that's not really a problem.

Anyway... All I'm saying is that, at first glance, it looks like you're fixing the wrong problem.

Now, if we were replacing VP/WP with the D&D hit point system, I'd agree with you that we'd be making a mistake. There are a lot of things that VP/WP does well (model physical vs. fatigue damage, faster healing between battles, allow for easy-to-kill mooks) that we wouldn't want to lose. So, we don't.

I don't want people to jump to any conclusions. We're not so blind or foolish as to ignore the benefits of a system and we try and implement as many of those advantages in other ways. As a result, we're doing some new things with the aforementioned condition track as well as the way things like damage and healing work to ensure that yes, Virginia, the system does work for Star Wars.

Oh, I know... That's why I'm remaining cautiously and skeptically curious, and reserving judgement until I've seen more.

Honestly, I'd rather be wrong than right... I love to see a new rule that's well put together and works just the way it's suppose to.

 

[Klaus]

Question:

Will I be able to make Imperial Knights (from the recent Star Wars: Legacy comics) with the new system (i.e., like Gray Jedi, not necessarily Evil, but their main allegiance is not to the Force).

Does the system differenciate Jedi, Gray Jedi, Dark Jedi and Sith?