Reincarnation - Specific Answers Sought

[dvvega]

Greetings all,

I have just finished playing a session this evening. My 7th level Wizard was killed and all we had on hand was a Reincarnation. Now since we're far from civilsation and have about 12 days before we get back to civilisation, I decided that Reincarnation was good enough.

Now, I lost a level due to the Reincarnation - no problem there, so I'm a 6th level Wizard now. All nice and simple so far.

I was Human BEFORE the reincarnation.

The issues are as follows ...

If I come back as a non-human do I lose my bonus feat and bonus skill points from 1st level? The PHB implies that I retain all my skills and knowledges ... what happens here?

I came back as a Satyr ... as far as I understand it, the following happens - please correct me if I am wrong.

1) I am now an 11th level character (6th Wizard + 5 EL Satyr)
2) I get hitpoints, BAB and Saves of a Satyr + 6th level Wizard
3) I need 66,000 xp to gain a new class level
4) I get the racial bonuses to certain skills as a satyr
5) I receive 6x INT SCORE +8 skill points as a Satyr - does this use my current INT SCORE? An average Satyr's INT SCORE? My 1st level Wizard INT SCORE?
6) As for class skills, do I assume only Wizard skills are class skills or do I get skill points in "satyr skills" as well as wizard skills?

Any information would be most appreciated, including links to answers on this topic previously posted.

Thanks,
David

 

[Fast Learner]

IMO you've got it right. From the skills perspective you would keep your old skills and yes, receive the racial modifiers. Satyrs don't have any "class" skills because they don't have a default class -- when you level in wizard, you get wizard skills.

You would also receive the racial modifiers to your attributes of a satyr: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha.

 

[dcollins]

Satyrs don't have any "class" skills because they don't have a default class...

MM p. 11: "All listed skills [for monster statistic blocks] were purchased as class skills... Treat any skill not mentioned in the creature's entry as a cross-class skill..."

 

[Storm Raven]

MM p. 11: "All listed skills [for monster statistic blocks] were purchased as class skills... Treat any skill not mentioned in the creature's entry as a cross-class skill..."

Those would be the default rules for non-classed monsters. Monsters with class levels should use their class skill lists when they advance in that class.

 

[Galfridus]

Greetings all,

If I come back as a non-human do I lose my bonus feat and bonus skill points from 1st level? The PHB implies that I retain all my skills and knowledges ... what happens here?

The spell description is pretty clear that you keep your skills and doesn't say anything about feats, so you would keep both.

1) I am now an 11th level character (6th Wizard + 5 EL Satyr)

This is not explicitly mentioned in the rules, but makes sense to me and is how I run it.

2) I get hitpoints, BAB and Saves of a Satyr + 6th level Wizard

No. Reincarnation says your hitpoints, BAB, and base saves are unchanged. You get the changes based on difference in stats, and that's it.

3) I need 66,000 xp to gain a new class level

If you go with #1, yes.

4) I get the racial bonuses to certain skills as a satyr

Since these are expressed as a racial ability, yes.

5) I receive 6x INT SCORE +8 skill points as a Satyr - does this use my current INT SCORE? An average Satyr's INT SCORE? My 1st level Wizard INT SCORE?

Your skills don't change when you are reincarnated. When you gain a level, you'll gain skill points based on whatever class you took. If, for some reason, you advanced as a Satyr rather than in a class, you'd get skill points as a Satyr (using your current INT score).

6) As for class skills, do I assume only Wizard skills are class skills or do I get skill points in "satyr skills" as well as wizard skills?

Again, this is only relevant when you gain a level, at which point the class you are gaining a level in determines what's a class skill.

 

[Nathan]

The ECL adjustment of +5 doesn't make sense if the reincarnated wizard doesn't receive all the benefits he would have if he had started as a sartyr, i.e. BAB, hitpoints, etc. On the other hand, the extra feat of a human would have to be discarded.

BTW, I would give the wizard enough EP's for 11th level (ECL +5 assumed) and use the FRCS calculation of XP's.

Nathan

 

[Tiberius]

When my players decide to Reincarnate, I usually just strip away their old racial ability modifiers, slap on the new physical modifiers, give them the speed, natural attacks, and extraordinary abilities of the new form, roll to see if they change gender, and send them on their way without modifications to their levels, skills, feats, etc. This has yet to cause a problem, and I've had about 7 reincarnates cast on PCs IG. I would certainly say that they do not lose their extra feat gained by starting as humans, as I see no reason for them to forget something they already knew.

-Tiberius

 

[dvvega]

Thank you for all your input.

So what I am left with is the query that...

IF I get the +5 EL I would get all the skill points etc as if I was a Satyr Wizard

IF I don't get the +5 EL then I would not get any extra skills, hitpoints, or anything.

Now what about the Supernatural ability of the Satyr to use its pipes? I get that since it's racial, but this definately should adjust my EL shouldn't it?

Thanks again.

 

[dr_nukem]

As a reincarnated being, I would say that you do not have access to the skills or feats of the race you get reincarnated as. You would have access to any of the supernatural or inherent racial abilities, but not the class skills/feats.

For instance, the Satyr has Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Reflexes (I think) for its feats. Since these are not inherent abilities of the race, rather they are learned abilities, you would not have access to them. However, the speed (40), SU pipes ability, and stats modifier (+2 dex, +2 con??) would be applied to your existing character as they are inherent to being a Satyr.

Given this type of ruling on reincarnation, +5 EL seems a bit steep...ok, WAY steep. I'd be more inclined to say that this is a +2 EL being...maybe +3 if you feel the pipes ability is overbalancing. If the racial mods for a Satyr are indeed +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, then I would obviously increase the EL level accordingly.

For a +5 EL, I'd say you'd have access to all of the abilities of the race, as if you started as a Satyr and developed your character to level 6 wizard.

Them's my thoughts.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

For instance, the Satyr has Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Reflexes (I think) for its feats. Since these are not inherent abilities of the race, rather they are learned abilities, you would not have access to them. However, the speed (40), SU pipes ability, and stats modifier (+2 dex, +2 con??) would be applied to your existing character as they are inherent to being a Satyr.

I would say the pipes are learned abilities as well... Maybe a few ranks of perform (took after the reincarnation) would allow the player to learn the way to play the pipes effectively...

But then, the player would have to learn from satyrs...

I also rememeber reading that all skills were considered class skills if they ever were for one of your classes. Which means that next level, you'll be able to take some wizard or satyr skills as class skills.

I would also go with Tiberius on the level of the reincarnated character. I wouldn't give the +5. Reincarnation would become a potentially very powerful spell if it allowed you to get 5 free levels...