Requesting Paladin build advice

[Shin Okada]

I always prefer LA +0 races. Only the number of HD and HP helps against some spells (and some other punishments). And you can get class abilities faster.

How about Half-Elf Paladin 4/Outcast Champion 4(or 5)/Knight of the Chalice X?

Paladin 4 is a magic number as now you can use divine feats. Half-Elf makes a good Paladin as they don't have any weak ability scores and their racial abilities match well with Paladin (bonus to diplomacy, bonus to will saves against enchantment) . And Outcast Champion is a really strong prestige class. Now see your (and your party members') will save! And other abilities are great, too. Avenging Strike is so nasty. And the class gives you skill point of 4+int mod/level.

Edit: Oops. You need another level to qualify for Outcast Champion. So Paladin 5/Outcast Champion x/Knight of the Chalice x. (or maybe Paladin 4/Fighter 1/Outcast Champion x/Knight of the Chalice x).

 

[Nightfall]

Will your DM allow some other Pr-classes?

*thinks personally Divine Champion is a better option than Knight of the Chalice*

Also might want to consider perhaps being "divine blooded" If you're using FR, there is a template to consider for that: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a

Just an idea...

*thinks personally if he could swing it, would go with Silver Knight (changed over to 3.5 and also fix the whole "Extended" protection from evil thing*

In any case you might also want to consider perhaps looking at Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds.

 

[Justin]

Will your DM allow some other Pr-classes?

*thinks personally Divine Champion is a better option than Knight of the Chalice*

He'll probably approve a fair amount, but I don't want to go too crazy. I had considered
Divine Champion a while back, but I'm more interested in Divine Disciple later on.

Also might want to consider perhaps being "divine blooded" If you're using FR, there is a template to consider for that: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a

Just an idea...

That link goes to an article about "Hate of the Cobra".

*thinks personally if he could swing it, would go with Silver Knight (changed over to 3.5 and also fix the whole "Extended" protection from evil thing*

I've never seen this, and I really don't want to worry about having to convert a PrC. The
reason for going with KoC in the first place was the demonic content of the campaign
(though I don't know what Silver Knight is about, so that may be an invalid point).

In any case you might also want to consider perhaps looking at Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds.

This is another one I was considering, and still would consider later on. For now I'm going
to stay with Pal and KoC. But thanks for the ideas!

Justin

 

[Justin]

Shin Okada,

Half-Elf and Outcast Champion don't fit my concept for this character. Plus I don't really like he idea of having more than three classes. It's too much dipping and distracts from the character IMHO. Thanks for the feedback, though.

Justin

 

[Justin]

I'm still digesting the feedback from Elder-Basilisk, Caeleddin, and Bront.

Seeing as how this is my second character, and first above first level, it's quite a bit to sort through. And whatever changes I make from the original character my DM and I built will need to be approved, and I don't want to go too wild here.

I'm torn between going pure Paladin, Pal/KoC and where to split (though KoCs can continue advancing as Pals), Pal/KoC/Divine Disciple, etc. The immense number of options in D&D3.5 really is a double-edged sword.

I want to thank everyone for their wonderful advice and hope you'll keep it coming. Maybe I'll have this guy ready by Saturday.

Justin

 

[Nightfall]

Justin,

Silver Knight is a Pr-class from the Scarred Lands devoted to fighting evil outsiders and elementals. I feel it has better powers than Knight of the Chailce. The only problem was it was written in 3.0 style so the increase on your "blessings" for your weapon don't work as well.

That plus the fact someone messed up by having Extended ability on Protection from evil spells.

I'm pretty sure I have a copy of the class lying around here some where...

Otherwise it's a good class.

Scroll down the list. There's a template called "Mulhorandi Divine Minion". Just an idea.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I like skills as much as the next guy, but if I want to play a paladin with all sorts of stealth, mobility, and alertness skills, I'll play a paladin/rogue or paladin/ranger. (Devoted Tracker, Devoted Inquisitor, and the Shadowbane Inquisitor prestige class help a lot in that regard). For a paladin/knight of the chalice, I'd only go that route if I wanted to handicap my character.

As for the difference that 1hp/level makes... well, on average, a 12th level paladin with a 13 con will have 87.5 hit points. With a 14 con, that's 99.5. With a 16 con, that's 111.5. You're talking over a 10% increase in the character's hit points, as well as a helpful boost to charisma (or some other stat) at level 16. If the character is an Aasimar or other +ECL race, he'd have to sacrifice either strength or charisma to have the 14 con/16 int combo, and I wouldn't do that either. The extra 12-24 hit points is quite a significant factor too. IME, when your 12th level paladin is facing down a bad guy, 10 hit points is run away or heal time. 22 hit points is often "I'm probably gonna drop this round, but I probably won't die" and 34 hit points is "I can take one more round of this."

I prefer more skills points because I like to do cross-class skills. Spot, Listen, Heal, Tumble, Search, Hide and Move Silently are standard for my characters, skill points permitting. I also add Bluff and Sleight of Hand for characters that like children to entertain them when time permits. Con is good, but 1 hp/level is not going to make that much of a difference.

 

[Justin]

Elder-Basilisk,

One quick point about your analysis of skill points: a requirement for Knight of the Chalice is 5 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), which is cross-class for Paladins and therefore eats up 10 points.

Also, I'm trying to be somewhat realistic about building a 12th level character, so I'm assigning skill points (using HeroForge) level by level when they most likely would have been assigned had the character been created at level 1. Given that, I put 2 points per level into Knowledge (the planes) at levels 4-8.

Justin

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If you really really like skills, I would definitely throw in a level of Ranger or Rogue.

What you actually need to be a highly effective Paladin at 12th level is:
Diplomacy: 15 ranks
Sense Motive: 15 ranks
Knowledge Nobility: 5 ranks
Knowledge Planes: 5 ranks (as cross class)
Ride: 5 ranks

That is it. Handle Animal and more ranks of Ride are unnecessary luxuries because you special mount can simply be asked to do whatever is necessary as a Free Action.

With a 12 Int and Human bonus, that still leaves a respectable 10 ranks for other skills. If you really want more than that, a desire I perfectly understand, you might consider other class combos.

Just to throw another option into the mix, for a very powerful mount and a lot of skills you could go something like Ranger4/Beastmaster1/Paladin7 and get Devoted Tracker from CV. This really eats up your feats because you need Skill Focus: Handle Animal. You might even pick up the Natural Bond feat for a Super Special Animal Companion Mount -- effective Druid level of 9 and Paladin level 7. That is +8HD, +10 Natural Armor +4 Str, +3 Dex and other abilities. A bit less if you want a Hippogriff or something. It is an interesting combo (though you might have to ask your DM about multiclassing issues).

 

[Justin]

don't read this post