D&D 5E Rethinking Ability Scores

[Wulffolk]

I have an idea in my head of characters having a Spell AC.

You could refer to that as RC, or Resistance Class.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I am unsure of that. Although mostly it should be something that you calculate as you level. I was trying to make "Spell power" a useful idea while keeping the damage consistent with current spells.

I have an idea in my head of characters having a Spell AC. But also, without other changes, Wisdom would still be very important for Perception and other skills, much more so that Intelligence.

Spells are tricky, for sure.

Alright, how about this: Intelligence is spell accuracy and is used for all spellcasting attacks. Wisdom is spell resistance and used to calculate your “Magic AC”. All spells use spell casting attacks for their initial effects, with spells that affect the subject physically, like fireball, targeting AC and spells that affect the subject mentality or otherwise supernaturally like Charm Person and Banish targeting Magic AC. Charisma is spell potency and is used to calculate Saving Throw DC for all spells. Saving Throws are only used to end ongoing effects, but are still made with various Abilities depending on the spell.

EDIT:
I like RC. Use that instead of Magic AC.

 

[ad_hoc]

- Spell damage is also based on effect type:
--- Single target, no damage on save: d10
--- Single target, half damage on save: d6
--- AoE/Multitarget, no damage on save: d8
--- AoE/Multitarget, half damage on save: d4
Spell damage = (Level + Cha (max Level/2) + Prof) * dX

This would strip spells of their character and reduce them all to variants on Fireball.

The important thing being left out here are rider effects.

If I could think of one thing that 5e has dropped the ball on it is not having thematic riders based on damage type.

 

[Charlaquin]

Alright, how about this: Intelligence is spell accuracy and is used for all spellcasting attacks. Wisdom is spell resistance and used to calculate your “Magic AC”. All spells use spell casting attacks for their initial effects, with spells that affect the subject physically, like fireball, targeting AC and spells that affect the subject mentality or otherwise supernaturally like Charm Person and Banish targeting Magic AC. Charisma is spell potency and is used to calculate Saving Throw DC for all spells. Saving Throws are only used to end ongoing effects, but are still made with various Abilities depending on the spell.

EDIT:
I like RC. Use that instead of Magic AC.

Actually, you could even go full-4e and have RC, FC, and WC (Reflex Class, Fortitude Class, and Will Class), with Dex or Int adding to RC, Con or Str adding to FC, and Wis or Cha adding to WC.

 

[ro]

This would strip spells of their character and reduce them all to variants on Fireball.

The important thing being left out here are rider effects.

If I could think of one thing that 5e has dropped the ball on it is not having thematic riders based on damage type.

This would merely be a guideline for modifying spells. We could add a clarification:
If the spell imposes a condition, decrease the die size by one step.

 

[Phineas Q. Conundrum]

I think overall we need to keep in mind the really excellent simplification that 5e really brings to the table. This is the kind of thing that could really confuse new players. If, mechanically speaking, ability scores lines up more with their names, Intelligence would be used for initiative. Also, while it is justified to have Warlock be a Charisma caster due to how the book says they get their magic, Paladin is less so.

 

[Wulffolk]

[MENTION=6890747]ro[/MENTION] I am wondering why you thought to decrease the proficiency bonus?

 

[5ekyu]

I have three goals in my head:
1) balance the abilities in importance with each other
2) make it easier to explain character creation to new players
3) keep the power level consistent with the game as written

My ideas probably don't go very far in addressing any of the above. But to start off, what do you think?

Proficiency Bonus is one less:
1 @ Levels 1-4
2 @ Levels 5-8
3 @ Levels 9-12
4 @ Levels 13-16
5 @ Levels 17-20

Dex -> Accuracy
Str -> Power
Con -> Resilience
Int -> Spell Accuracy
Cha -> Spell Power
Wis -> Spell Resilience

Weapon attacks all use Dex/Accuracy: Attack bonus = Prof. + Acc.
Weapon damage always uses Str/Power: Damage bonus = Pow.

Spell attacks all use Intelligence: Spell attack bonus = Prof. + Int.
Spell damage always uses Charisma:
- Spell damage is based on spell level, proficiency bonus, and Cha modifier
- Spell damage is also based on effect type:
--- Single target, no damage on save: d10
--- Single target, half damage on save: d6
--- AoE/Multitarget, no damage on save: d8
--- AoE/Multitarget, half damage on save: d4
Spell damage = (Level + Cha (max Level/2) + Prof) * dX

Spell saves always use your Wisdom modifier.

Consequences:
All martials need Dex and Str. All spellcasters need Int and Cha. Everyone needs Con and Wis.

Well, it is a concept that has been approached before - basically a power, finesse and tough for both the physical and mental realms (here represented as physical and magical)

WoD for instance had a power-finesse-resist for each of three "arenas" -physical-knowledge-social.
INT was a measure of how much you knew -
WITS was how quickly you could use it and apply it, esp under time pressure
??? (Composure??) was how well you kept it under assault or when the stress and trauma made it a matter of "endurance" more than the others.

For all three - it was easy to assign one of those abilities to various skills for a combined dice pool.

But in order for such to work out as balanced there would need to be some significant additional mechanics for all sorts of activities - pretty much a "combat system" of sorts and some rather balanced spread and scope - IIRC each of those trees had ten broad "skills" each.

DEX is not a concern for some just because of its combat elements but its utility out of combat as well with several very key and thematic skills tied to it fairly often. Meanwhile, strength gets substantially less play.
each the "mental side" also gets its own "combat system."

Even though it could be another step away from the DnD norm, you should perhaps consider three or four trips - power, finesse, resist possibly separating magic altogether from physical, social, mental and into its own trip. While it is technically twelve attributes instead of six - its really just four divisions - physical, social, smarts and magic with three ways to use each.

 

[ro]

Actually, you could even go full-4e and have RC, FC, and WC (Reflex Class, Fortitude Class, and Will Class), with Dex or Int adding to RC, Con or Str adding to FC, and Wis or Cha adding to WC.

I haven't played 4e. How does each come into play?

I think I like this. 10 plus your Wisdom modifier plus some spell armor; could be pretty cool.

I like this.
Magic AC/RC = 10 + Wis
Magic (not magical) armor would be important to get, and could be combined (or not) with regular armor. (Robes?)
Maybe there would be no saving throws against spells: spells would all be attack rolls (Int) against your AC (Wis). There would be no more DMs asking, "What saving throw is it?"

[MENTION=6890747]ro[/MENTION] I am wondering why you thought to decrease the proficiency bonus?

I decreased the proficiency bonus because it is now added to spell damage and would have increased spell power otherwise.

 

[Charlaquin]

I haven't played 4e. How does each come into play?

Did you play much 3.X? They’re basically Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves, but expressed as defenses. So a spell like fireball that you have to dodge targets RC. A spell like Charm Person that affects your mind targets WC. A spell like toxic cloud that you have to overcome with sheer physical resilience targets FC.