Retreating *is* an option!

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I run more d20 Modern than fantasy right now, but I have noticed a lot of new characters will attack EVERYTHING they see, thinking the videogame logic of "If it's in the game, it's meant to be beaten at this level!" that has sunk in lately.

I actually had some fool attack an M1A1 Main Battle Tank with a knife. Then he complained when, as he was running away, when it ran him over.

I've also seen a sole newbie player have his PC stand in the middle of the street, in front of a HORDE (We're talking tens of thousands, in downtown LA) of zombie, with a single 9mm pistol, plinking shots into it, then trying to go hand to hand as it engulfed him. Then call me a killer GM when he gets ripped apart.

Mostly, I think that the lack of desire to retreat comes from a lot of games, where you cannot run away from the battles, that the way to where the major leaque baddies is blocked until they are ready for it. And I think that subconscious knowledge gets brought into tabletop games.

Here's a hint: Running away is sometimes the only options besides death.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Wizard's First Rule - People are stupid! (Terry Goodkind)

DMs First Rule - PCs are even more stupid! (Thunderfoot)

Seriously, you gave them far more of a "warning" than I would have. Frankly, I would have let them die and then pointed and laughed "Ha ha, you got killed by a horse!" My players have figured out that I will save them from a lot of things, but stupidity isn't one of them, which is usually followed by abject humiliation.

You done good, kid!

 

[Wik]

The thing I noticed abpout TPKs is that once 1 PC goes down, it's all or nothing. You don't want to leave your companion behind, so you throw your all into the fight.

In one game, the three of us (my spellthief, a monk, and our cleric) came across a group of kobolds. As we started fighting (and winning) some kobold slaves started fleeing. I was a bit "pumped" from our victories, and chased the slaves (figuring to communicated with them) while my companions finished off the kobolds.

I came face to face with a kobold fighter a level or two higher than my character. He knocked me down in something like two rounds. The rest of the party was stuck trying to fight their kobolds AND the fighter.... they could have retreated and left my (STUPID) spellthief to his death. But, they didn't want to be cowards, so they stayed.

I don't know if the GM cheated or not to save us (he probably didn't, knowing how he behaved later) but the group did finish that fight, thanks to the cleric healing my spellthief during the fight and liberal use of sneak attacks, but it was pretty close to a TPK.

Back to the OP, I fighre that once the group wins a fight against what they thought was the MAIN bad guy, they felt tough. In the fight against the *mount*, when things started going against them, they didn't want to back down in light of their prior success. Once the first PC fell, they felt the need to press the attack. As more and more PCs fell (and it becomes obvious that the surviving PCs won't be able to carry their dead with them as they run), they step up their attack.

Once half the group goes in a combat, you can pretty much bet the whole group goes. I once saw a five person group that was down to only two members when one PC decided to run (leaving the lone PC to be devoured by whatever it was we were fighting). But that's unusual, in my experience.

 

[Ceresco]

As is often quoted in Living Arcanis, "Stupidity Leads to Character Creation!"





Respectfully,

Edward Kopp: Arcaniac at Large

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Heh. My players would have stood directly in front of it, started with trip attempts, and moving into trying to kill it. It'd probabably take 2-3 ko's before they'd even consider that this was a problem. And even then, they'd still keep fighting, probably pushing this into a TPK.

I love my players, but they never back down once in a fight. Afterwards they might run like a bunch of chickens, but when the fight is on, it's on till everyone drops.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's a difficult balancing act. I guess the general principle is: When setting up an encounter in which the PCs may well have to retreat, ensure that all emergency exits are clearly marked.

QFT. Often the opportunity to retreat is crystal clear to the DM, but to the players (who have much less knowledge about the true situation) it isn't clear at all to them whether retreat is even possible (c.f. the number of creatures in the MM with a movement speed >30ft, for instance).

Plus I love Marks' use of the phrase 'ensure that all emergency exits are clearly marked'

 

[librarius_arcana]

With DR 10/slashing, and being *faster* than the group, getting it from range wasn't really a good option, I must say.

(The horse & rider also had the interesting combination of Resist Fire 10 and Vulnerable fire. The first could have been dispelled, but wasn't).

Cheers!

How did they keep within melee range?

 

[danzig138]

The thing I noticed abpout TPKs is that once 1 PC goes down, it's all or nothing. You don't want to leave your companion behind, so you throw your all into the fight.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. When one PC goes down, the others go at it hard to win.
When the second PC goes down, they falter a bit.
When the third PC drops, the remaining characters say "Hey guys, we're going to run the loot back to town and see if we can reincarnate you. Bye."

 

[moritheil]

There is a strong element of personal pride. A good time to bury your head in your hands is when the PCs say something like, "We're not going to run from a bunch of kobolds/goblins/zombies/<insert type here>!"

 

[Harmon]

In more then a few battles we have retreated, but seldom do we feel that we can without getting stomped as we run off, so we tend to stand our ground 'til the enemy is dead or until we have been captured or taken out.

In one of the two battle with the big bad (her name eludes me) we bungled into her temple and did battle with her. My PC (wizard6/ArcaneOrder5) ran up to two of the negitive hp PCs and yelled for a third- "ready- when Akordia gets to me Dimension Door to here," <indicating on the map to a location we knew the distance to> "Nikata- get everyone out of here!" <to our LoreMaster>

One of them big ass spider critters coming through a portal behind the alter and the cleric chick herself having just Healed herself, we thought it best that we leave.

We fled, spells exhausted, three PCs to negitive hp, and all the other five within two dozen of zero.

The next fight with her went nearly the same way, but we led with a half dozen Dispel Magics and used all our transportation magics to get there so there was no retreat. "All or nothing."

Not the