Retro DnD Help

[McFluff]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or if a similar thread has already been created, so my apologies if this has been asked before. My group and I all started playing D&D with 3.XE and currently play 4E so we never really had a chance to play any of the now classic editions of the game (Basic, 1E and 2E). Now we're looking to remedy this. The problem is is that none of us are very familiar with the early editions of the game so I was looking for a little help from the EN World community. Help us choose one. What I'm looking for is a few PROs and CONs for each system as well as a few must have books that we'd need to put together a decent campaign. I look forward to playing and thanks in advance for all the help.

-Mcfluff

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or if a similar thread has already been created, so my apologies if this has been asked before. My group and I all started playing D&D with 3.XE and currently play 4E so we never really had a chance to play any of the now classic editions of the game (Basic, 1E and 2E). Now we're looking to remedy this. The problem is is that none of us are very familiar with the early editions of the game so I was looking for a little help from the EN World community. Help us choose one. What I'm looking for is a few PROs and CONs for each system as well as a few must have books that we'd need to put together a decent campaign. I look forward to playing and thanks in advance for all the help.

Basic is... basic. Easy to learn and play but VERY rules-light. DM needs to be ready to play a lot of stuff off-the-cuff.

1E is fantastic but you have to take it with a grain of salt. Not even Gygax used (or even liked it seems) all the rules for 1E. Some parts are just needlessly complicated (surprise and initiative), yet some of it is better than any "improvements" that were made in later editions. Run it with gusto but be willing to alter and omit whatever doesn't work for you. It's sometimes described as requiring the DM to monkey with the rules just to get it started, but it is also the system where the author openly exhorted DM's to do just that and make the system what YOU want it to be.

2E toned down a lot of the crankier rules bits of 1E so it runs smoother "out of the box". It also suffers from a tone of writing aimed at quite young readers rather than adults, and earns well-deserved demerits for Political Correctness moves. Of the three precursors to 3rd Edition I'd say 2E is most likely to cause you the FEWEST problems in adjusting to it, but I'd STRONGLY encourage keeping 1E right there with it.

For any game of D&D you don't need more than PH, DMG and MM (though the various flavors of basic sort of wrap them all up together.) Pick up a couple of the classic 1E and 2E adventures to run, but as DM you need to be fully expecting to putting a lot more sponaneous creativity into them. Even those classic adventures need tons of YOUR input and imagination to really bring them to life - and THAT is where the FUN is.

 

[JoeBlank]

I recently read through most of the retro-clones, trying to decide what rules set to use with my sons. We settled on Basic Fantasy RPG. I is loosely based on Basic D&D, although it ditched races as classes and it uses ascending AC, like d20, which makes combat easier to me.

A great summary of the earlier versions of the game and the many retro-clones can be found here: Retro-Clones | RetroRoleplaying

Take a look, download the ones that look interested (pretty much all of them are free) and give them a try.

 

[bagger245]

To the OP, you can try out Castles & Crusades, which is a bridge between 3.5 and older editions. You can also go retro-clone which are all free. Labyrinth Lord is my favourite amongst them.

 

[scruffygrognard]

I'd also recommend Castles and Crusades as a "gateway" between d20 D&D and older versions of the game.

You only need two books to play the game, the Players Handbook and Monsters & Treasure, so the monetary investment isn't too hateful, and it is extremely customizable. The cherry on top is that you can easily port older edition materials into your C&C game without too many headaches.

 

[JediSoth]

On the other hand, if you can pick up a copy of the D&D Rules Compendium (circa 1991) from eBay or a used bookstore, you'll have a complete D&D game in one book. Granted, it's not as complex as first or second edition AD&D, but it'll allow you to run a level 1-36 campaign of BECMI D&D with no other resources. You can also use most 1st edition AD&D adventures with it with little conversion (in fact, the RC has a section on conversion of 2nd ed. AD&D to RC).

 

[Derulbaskul]

I really like Swords & Wizardry available from Mythmere Games. It's a clone of OD&D (the Diaglo version) but tidied up. It has also been picked up by Frog god Games for professional publication.

One of the things I like best about it is that Matt Finch, the author, has also made available .RTF versions of the two PDF books so that incorporating your house rules into the version you print is made so much easier.

While I'm currently quite happy with 4E there are some itches it doesn't scratch but S&W looks like it's just about right for me.

 

[Water Bob]

Old D&D is pretty basic stuff. For example, with the really old stuff, races and classes were one. Alignment is just chaos and law (no good and evil). That was changed in later supplements.

1E AD&D is one of the hardest games to master because of the way the rules are written (if you're looking to play RAW..rules as written). I disagree with the post above that says that 1E AD&D is easiest straight out of the box. I would say that person has been playing with a lot of house rules.

I mean, take a look at the combat section in the 1E AD&D DMG. The 1E combat round is one of the most complicated, still hotly debated topics every to come out of D&D.

If you're interested in older versions of the game, check out this forum: DRAGONSFOOT . There are lots of helpful folks there that can help you out with 1E or 2E AD&D. Even some of the original TSR game contributors hang out there--someone answer your questions there could be the person who wrote the rule you're asking about!

2E AD&D is probably where I would point you. It's a tad less crunchy than 3E, but still has a lot of crunch for those that like it. The rules are, for the most part, more coherent than what you see in 1E (don't get me wrong, I love 1E--the rules are just a mess, though).

2E was written from two perspectives, and it does a good job of having a foot in each type of gaming. First, there's the crunchy 1E people (and the 3E people) who like to play the game like a miniatures war game with a grid and such. But, 2E is also written for the group that doesn't use a grid in combat at all. They just sit around the gaming table, listening to the DM's desription, reacting to what he says, not worrying about exact distances on a map. 2E can be a faster paced, more visually abstract game, if you play it that way.

There are plenty of supplements for 2E, though, that add in more crunch. First, additional things you can do with your non-weapon proficiency slots pop up (similar to skill points in 3E), and then, books that tie the game back down to the graph are given.

You decide how you want to play, though, which is the beauty of 2E--it's flexibility.

 

[McFluff]

First I want to thank everyone that has contributed to the thread! Now I've looked through most of the retro-clones that have been mentioned but that doesn't seem to be the direction that I want to go. My group and I are kind of looking forward to playing these old systems with their flaws in-tact and house rule them ourselves. You know... as our gaming for-fathers did.

I've gone ahead and picked up a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia off of eBay. It was pricier than I was expecting but as well as being a complete rules set it seems like it will have a lot of tasty rules in it that I could use no matter what system I decide to use (even in my regular 4E game. I love tables!). Aside from that it looks like we are leaning towards running a 2E game. I've been sitting on a few 2E Dragonlance adventures (Knight's Sword and Flint's Axe) that I may end up running. Either way I look forward to putting away all the minis and dungeon tiles and sitting back and playing so old school DnD!

Any further advice is still appreciated.