D&D 4E Revamped 4e Skill List... need input please!

[MadLordOfMilk]

Honestly, I prefer the following easy method for specialization: If they're doing something related to the character's back story, they get a +2 bonus to the skill check.

It's just easier to do offhand, IMO, rather than fiddle with the entire skill set. It's also a nice way to reward players for giving a history of their character

 

[Brooding Paladin]

We are considering the exact same thing you are contemplating here and that others have contributed. The strength and occasional weakness of 4E seems to be in the character builder. Whatever you implement shouldn't run too far afoul of the CB or it can be tough to keep up with. As others have suggested, we are considering offering each character a skill specialty for free (e.g. - no feat spend, etc.). We borke a list out similar to yours where there are areas of specialization within all the 4E skills. Selecting one gives your character a +2 bonus when that particular sub-skill comes into play.

The motivation for doing this is the fact that the DM is trying to bring the backstory to the forefront in certain situations. It's not a criticism, but since there are fewer skills in 4E, you frequently find that when someone is wounded and the Heal check is required, the question of "Who can heal?" results in four hands going up. Players want their characters to be unique, so that doesn't really get it. However, if someone has specilized in disease treatment, then that character gets a moment to shine in the right situation.

A +2 bonus in that kind of situation doesn't appear to threaten the balance of the game and gives the character a reason to be specific in his or her backstory.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Honestly, I prefer the following easy method for specialization: If they're doing something related to the character's back story, they get a +2 bonus to the skill check.

It's just easier to do offhand, IMO, rather than fiddle with the entire skill set. It's also a nice way to reward players for giving a history of their character

I'd essentially call this the default 4e way of handling it. Background already gives you a +2 to an entire skill (if you want to take that advantage). So the character that has background "Farmer" can get +2 to Nature. Now if he's asked to handle an animal or harvest a plant or something, the DM can easily give him another +2 because he's especially good at that. The ranger that got Nature because he wanders in the woods a lot, he has no idea about harvesting plants in particular, though he's probably going to do a pretty good job of it he's 4 points behind the guy who was a farmer.

And really, what DM wouldn't give this PC that was a farmer some detailed background knowledge either? He's going to know if its the right time to plant corn, be able to tell if a crop is getting enough water, plow a field, etc. Those things don't have bonuses because they are mundane stuff that doesn't even require a die roll in general.

 

[Markn]

I've given thought to spreading the list of skills more evenly across abilities. Right now, there is only 1 str skill, a lot of cha and wis skills and so forth.

My only issue in doing this, is trying to find uses for Str.

Sorry for the tangent, but its another option for shuffling up skills for you...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I've given thought to spreading the list of skills more evenly across abilities. Right now, there is only 1 str skill, a lot of cha and wis skills and so forth.

My only issue in doing this, is trying to find uses for Str.

Sorry for the tangent, but its another option for shuffling up skills for you...

Yeah, but I see it this way. There has to be SOMETHING that signifies strong characters do things well that require strength, etc. Practically every other aspect of the game virtually treats ability scores as just some abstract set of numbers anymore that might modify anything purely based on how well the mechanics work. Skills still leave the smart guy feeling smart, etc.

STR is a bit of a special case ability score too. Its kind of the easiest one to explain and the one that does a LOT of stuff. More classes have it as a prime req than any other ability. Athletics is also a really key skill to have. High STR is a strong feature, so maybe its not so bad that it gets one (very broadly applicable) skill.

 

[bardolph]

In an effort to try and expand some out of combat specialization, I am trying to enhance 4e skills with 3e subskills. I've managed to figure out where the 3e skills fit into the 4e framework, with duplicates as needed. The trick is to now decide what to do with it.

Couple of early thoughts. I want the 4e skill to always be the minimum number for the entire set. The subsets would always represent degrees of specialization within that skill. Your Barbarian's Balance should never be below the generic Acrobatics skill number. The reason is that the existing 4e products use these big generic skills, and I don't want to penalize people for not using this system, or for making terrible specialization choices.

I guess my biggest issues are how to impliment them at creation, and then how to advance them as the character advances. Any thoughts?

It really depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want a PC to be able to be REALLY GOOD at JUST ONE THING above everything else, then using a Background modifier makes the most sense. It's a "flavor bonus."

If you're looking for a system that allows characters to pick different specializations across several different skill categories and then be able to min/max those specializations, that's more difficult.

Maybe you can create a new feat called "skill specialist." This would allow the PC to pick three different trained skills and declare a specialty within each, which would give a +2 bonus when applicable.

 

[bardolph]

I've given thought to spreading the list of skills more evenly across abilities. Right now, there is only 1 str skill, a lot of cha and wis skills and so forth.

My only issue in doing this, is trying to find uses for Str.

Sorry for the tangent, but its another option for shuffling up skills for you...

The biggest use for STR is fighting, which is pretty well covered in most campaigns. It's very rare that I hear players complain that STR isn't useful enough.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

My only issue in doing this, is trying to find uses for Str.

Off the top of my head, STR already covers...

• Bash open a door
• Break out of bondings
• Overpower NPCs (arm wrestling match? hehe)
• Push things (or bull rush NPCs)
• Grappling
• Carry heavy things for the party
• Jump far (athletics)
• Climb (athletics)
• Flex and rip your clothes in the manliest way possible

Overall, STR has a lot of uses, so I wouldn't worry too much. Many just aren't directly involved with skills.

 

[Turtlejay]

• Flex and rip your clothes in the manliest way possible

Nice.

Other systems I have played, like Shadowrun or White Wolf, allow you to spend some of your character creation budget to 'specialize'. So for a relatively tiny price you can get a nice bonus to a niche skill. So you may have a 5 in Firearms, but your specialty in Shotguns gives you a 7 when using that specific weapon.

Instead of reviving the whole list, give each character a few freebie specializations. No established boundaries, nothing. So if I were playing a Ranger who liked to climb and snipe, I could have Athletics (Climb) - 11. So Climbing was something I was extra good at. You could also allow them to choose specialties that did not exist in 3.5 this way. A stealthy Warlock might choose Sneak(Tailing) for one of his specializations.

The upside to this is it requires little work to implement if you already use the CB. Just jot it down and you are done.

Jay