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Revised druid - need some help

Kerrick

First Post
So... the druid. I was never really happy with the way this one turned out - the masteries were a good idea in theory, but they didn't turn out so well in practice. The abilities were hard to create, and they ended up being pretty weak and non-useful overall. I do, however, want to keep them (because they're still a good idea), and I have some ideas.

The main problem with the druid, as I see it, is twofold: Natural Spell and wildshape. Banning the feat eliminates the first; for the second, I changed the rules so that a) you can only choose from a repertoire of forms (kind of like spells, but not nearly as many); and b) no form's ECL can be higher than your class level. This ensures that you don't choose something that's overpowered ("But its HD don't exceed my level!" *snort*), and the player doesn't stop play looking through all the books for a suitably broken form to take - with a set "stable" of forms, most players would be encouraged to simply keep the stats on a file card. And yes, I'm well aware of the problem with the difference in stats. I'm not sure that it would cause that much of a problem with the above fixes.

Oh, and I made some changes to polymorph: Basically, you become the creature. You retain your own HD/hp, which are not modified by the new Con score (though changes to the new Con score affect hp as normal); you also retain mental stats. Skills are adjudicated on a case-by-case basis; if the DM rules that you can use it in your new form, you can use your skill ranks instead of the new form's, if they're higher (but you might suffer a penalty).

Favored terrain and one with nature are exactly like the ranger abilities; resist nature's lure and venom immunity are unchanged.

All the "new size" Wild feats from the ELH get condensed into a single class ability: Expanded Wildshape (see abilities for a full description). Vermin shape will go to the Vermin Lord (PrC); Dragon Shape will probably become a legendary class ability (in the PP meta-setting, dragons were originally formed from the elemental chaos, so they make a good high-level druidic form). Elemental and plant shapes remain the property of their respective masteries, but I changed things around a bit (see below).

The reason I cut wild shape back is that I don't feel this should be the druid's central ability. It should be a major ability, sure - something like the paladin's smite or a cleric's turning - but not their whole schtick. Druids are protectors of nature and all things living, opposed to those who would despoil it, as well as anything that goes against the natural order. The masteries are intended to let the druid focus on different aspects of nature - animals, plants, the earth, or weather - and become a warden, of sorts, for that aspect: Beastlords have ties to animals, Verdant Lords have power over the plant kingdom, Elemental Lords prevent natural disasters like earthquakes and eruptions, and Stormlords control the weather.

I'm leaning toward restricting the druid to one mastery, and each mastery has a pool of abilities to choose from, similar to the fighter. You can change masteries each time you gain a new ability, but you don't gain all the new abilities at once - you gain a new one at each level thereafter until you've hit your max. For example, a L11 druid decides to change his mastery from Elements to Weather; he loses all the Elements abilities and can choose one Weather ability at L11, one at L12, and the last at L13.

And that's it, so far. I'll toss out some abilities later, but I just wanted to get the general framework and comments on it. Mostly what I'm looking for is regarding the masteries


1st: Animal companion
2nd: Favored terrain
3rd: Druidic mastery
4th: One with nature
5th: Wild shape
6th: 2nd FT
7th: Druidic mastery
8th: Resist nature's lure
9th: Expanded wild shape
10th: 3rd FT
11th: Druidic mastery
12th: Venom immunity
13th: Expanded wild shape
14th: 4th FT
15th: Druidic mastery
16th: Speak with nature
17th: Expanded wild shape
18th: 5th FT
19th: Druidic mastery
20th: Terrain mastery


Speak with Nature (Su): All druids can speak to plants, animals, or the earth itself, depending on their chosen mastery. Beastlords can speak with animals, as the spell; Elemental Lords can communicate with stone, as the stone tell spell; Verdant Lords can speak with plants, as the spell; and Stormlords can speak with airborne creatures, as the speak with animals spell. This ability is usable at will.

Wild Shape (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day as standard action, a Beastlord can draw upon his ties with the nature and change into any animal and back again. In order to change into an animal, he must have studied any individual of its type, either alive or dead, for at least 3 rounds. Thereafter, he can add that animal to his list of allowed forms (see below). His options for new forms include all creatures with the Animal type.

When the druid gains this ability, he automatically starts with one animal shape of his choice, which must fulfill the above requirements. He can know up to one animal form per two class levels; each time he gains a new level, he can exchange an existing animal form for a new one, if he has reached his maximum.

This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 10 minutes per druid level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time the druid changes form, he regains lost hit points as if he had rested for a night. The new form's ECL can't exceed the druid's class level, and its size can be two sizes smaller or (so a Medium druid could wild shape into a Tiny, Small, or Medium animal).

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to his true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on his body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

A druid loses his ability to speak while in animal form because he is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but he can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as his new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

Expanded Wild Shape: The druid can wildshape into a form one size larger or smaller than those currently allowed to him. Each time he gains this ability, he must choose larger or smaller. At each level he gains this ability, he also gains a new use of wild shape.

Each time the druid gains this ability, he can also choose a new form related to his mastery, of the type or subtype noted below:

Beastlord: Magical beast

Elemental Lord: Earth or Fire subtypes

Stormlord: Air subtype

Verdant Lord: Plant

The form chosen must comply with the restrictions noted under Wild Shape, above, except that the ECL can be equal to the druid's class level +2.


Terrain Mastery: The druid is so attuned to nature and the environment that he can operate normally even in extreme temperature or weather. In effect, he does not suffer nonlethal damage for temperatures from 0 to 140 degrees F. Temperatures from 0 to -20 degrees deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal, and below -20 degrees deals lethal damage as normal; temperatures above 140 degrees likewise deal lethal damage. A druid in metal armor still suffers normal effects, regardless of the temperature. The druid also suffers no ill effects (nonlethal damage) from sandstorms, though he still has limited vision as normal.


Druidic Masteries

[sblock]
Generally speaking, good-aligned druids use their powers to help civilized peoples - bringing rains to dry areas, preventing or mitigating natural disasters, and the like - while neutral druids do what they feel is best for nature (not necessarily man), and evil druids actively oppose the encroachment of civilization on the wilds and use their powers to destroy or drive away those who would attempt to settle there.


Mastery of Animals: Beastlords are druids more attuned to the animal kingdom. A typical Beastlord knows every species of animal that lives in the area he protects, and often knows most individuals by sight. They often have a small entourage of wild and tamed animals around them, either openly following or within calling distance. Beastlords are most common in areas with varied animal life, but they can be found in any terrain or climate, from arctic to tropical, mountains to plains.

Beastlords are never attacked by animals unless the animal is attacked first, rabid, or under another person (or creature's) control; their level for purposes of animal companion abilities (and their effective level for gaining advanced companions) is treated as 2 higher than normal.


Aspect of the beast: This is identical to the ranger ability of the same name.


Wild Empathy (Ex): This is identical to the base druid ability.

Wild Form: As a standard action, the druid can change part of his body to that of an animal - head, hands/arms, or feet/legs - which must be one into which he can wildshape. He can make armed attacks with the new form's natural weapons, as a creature of his size (claw attacks generally deal 1d6 damage and a head butt or bite attack deals 1d4 damage). A druid with an animal head can't speak or cast spells using a verbal component; one with animal hands can't hold items or cast spells with somatic or material components. Using this ability counts as a use of wildshape.

---


Mastery of Elements: Elemental Lords are druids who attune themselves to the earth itself - they can speak to the stones, feel life flowing through the ground, and control the flows of natural energy. LIke other druids, they serve as wardens, but their purpose is different - they head off natural disasters like earthquakes, forest fires, and volcanic eruptions before they start, or control them after they've already happened (forest fires are often necessary for some trees to spread their seeds, for example). They spend much of their time alone, away from civilization, and often underground - the better to feel the ebb and flow of the earth's energy.



Control Element (Su): Three times per day, an Elemental Lord can control large amounts of elemental matter of his chosen type. In order to exert control, he must be within 5 feet per class level of the element and must be able to see or touch it. Gaining initial control of the element is a full-round action; thereafter, he must maintain concentration, and can control it for up to 1 round per class level. He can manipulate up to 10 cubic feet per class level, all of which must be touching - he can't control several separate fires, for instance.

What a druid can actually do is subject to the player's imagination and the DM's discretion. The druid could, for instance, create animals out of existing sources of fire and control their movement, or simply make a mass of fire move on its own; make the ground move (ripple, open up under someone or something, or rise), create hands to grapple or pummel, or change its consistency, turning earth into fine dust or quicksand, or stone into mud or sand. Treat a controlled elemental mass as an elemental of the same size, except that it has no hit points and cannot be damaged (but it can be dispelled).

The druid can relinquish control at any time as a free action; if he loses concentration for any reason, the element automatically becomes inert; fire constructs revert to their normal state (i.e., disperse), while earth usually remains changed (pillars of rock raised from the ground, for instance).

Elemental Form (Su): The Elemental Lord can choose an elemental form (any creature of the Elemental type with the Earth or Fire subtype) as one of his wildshape forms.

Summon Elemental (Su): Once per day, as a full-round action, an Elemental Lord can summon one Large or two Medium earth or fire elementals, provided there is a large enough source of the element nearby. The elementals follow his commands to the best of their abilities; they remain for 1 minute per class level or until killed or dismissed.

---

Mastery of Plants: Verdant Lords are dedicated to the preservation of nature in general and plant life in specific. A brief touch can make a plant look healthier, while a little attention and a few words can make a flower bloom. They are most common in areas with heavy plant life – rain forests and jungles, or just plain forests.

Verdant Lords are never attacked by sentient plants unless the plant is attacked first or is under another person (or creature's) control. They can also move through areas of undergrowth that have been magically enchanted to impede movement, like spike growth, without taking damage or being impaired.


Control Plants (Su): Three times per day, a Verdant Lord can exert control over all nonsentient plants within 5 feet per class level. He can either maintain concentration and make them take specific actions or let them freely act on a given command.

If he concentrates, he can have the plants do anything of which they are capable – trees can move their branches to lash at or hinder opponents, vines and bushes can move to entangle foes or move out of the druid's way to provide a clear path. Plants cannot uproot themselves, however; if the druid loses his concentration, they will continue to carry out the last command given until he resumes concentration or the duration runs out.

If the druid gives a simple command, plants in the area will do their best to carry it out - again, to the limits of their abilities. As above, these commands are usually limited to hindering or killing foes – if they are hindering, each enemy must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the druid's level + druid's Wis bonus) each round or become entangled, as the spell; even on a successful save, they take 1d4 points of damage from thorns, lashing branches, etc. If the command is given to kill, each enemy must make a Reflex save each round or take 2d6 points of damage (a successful save halves the damage; a natural 1 doubles it).

The control lasts for 1 round per class level or until the druid dismisses it; commands can be no more than 10 words long and can be changed once per round as a standard action.


Plant Shape (Su): A Verdant Lord can choose any creature of the Plant type as a form for his wild shape ability.

---


Mastery of Weather: Stormlords are druids who have learned to control the weather (though "control" is often a misleading term – they typically "nudge" it a bit here and there to avoid drastic climate changes). They are among the most powerful of druids, able to call down lightning from a clear sky, summon or banish storms, and eventually call air elementals or other creatures of the sky.

Stormlords gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saves vs. severe weather (this includes extremes of heat and cold), a +4 bonus to Survival checks to predict the weather, and a +2 bonus to the save DCs for all weather-related spells they cast.

Stormrider (Ex): A Stormlord gains a Small (2 HD) air elemental as a companion instead of a normal animal companion. The elemental serves as an aid to the druid's power, helping him summon or control the weather (effectively, when the companion is within 20 feet, the druid's caster level is increased by 1 for purposes of weather-based spells). As it gains HD, it also increases in size (see the elemental entry in the Monster Manual for advancement), enabling it to better help the druid. It otherwise follows the rules for druid companions. Alternately, he can choose a creature with the Air subtype, or any bird-like creature (eagle, arrowhawk, roc, etc.), provided it is no higher than ECL 2.


Control Weather (Su): Once per day, a Stormlord can call up a specific weather phenomenon – a tornado, strong winds, lightning, a rainstorm, etc. If there is not already a storm present, it requires 5 minutes to do so. Calling lightning, high winds, or other normal phenomena from a storm is a full-round action; the druid can direct lightning strikes (up to 1 per class level, as the call lightning spell) at any target he can see within 50 feet per class level.

Shocking touch (Su): At will as a standard action, a druid can deal 1d4 points of electricity damage with his touch. There is no save against this effect. If the target is wearing/carrying a large amount of armor, it takes 1d6 points of damage, and the druid can arc the shock up to 5 feet to hit it.

Summon Stormrider (Su): Once per day, as a full-round action, a Stormlord can summon one Large or two Medium air elementals. The elementals follow his commands to the best of their abilities; they remain for 1 minute per druid level or until killed or dismissed.

Weather Resistance (Ex): Stormlords are immune to many effects of weather, due to their innate ability to control it. At first, this ability is relatively minor – a Stormlord won't get wet in a rainstorm, can move safely through a dust storm, sandstorm, or anything similar (no damage taken, and no chance of choking – this does not apply to spell effects like stinking cloud), and can call up a mild wind (up to 10 mph) at will as a standard action. In addition, he is not affected (no Fort save necessary) by any winds short of Severe, as long as he is on the ground – a druid who is flying (either from a spell, item, or polymorphed) is immune to winds up to Strong only.[/sblock]
 

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Hawken

First Post
I think the Shapechange option for Druids from the PHB2 addresses a few of your concerns about Wildshape and may actually solve your problem with it.

Just a minor point here; your use of "lord" on these druid titles seems a bit off. Druids are supposed to work in concert with nature, not dominate it.

How do you justify losing a power with this stuff? If you know how to do it once, that knowledge doesn't just vanish. In modern terms, you don't forget how to ride a bike just because you learned how to drive a car.

It sounds like you're wanting to treat druids the way Jedi are treated in SWSE. Your elemental this, animal that, feel more like talent trees the way you are describing them--and if I am understanding your intention behind them.

Or you could do it in a similar fashion to Rogue Special Abilities. At 10th level, the Druid gets to choose 1 aspect of nature to specialize in (animals, weather, plants, etc.). He gets a special ability; let's say Animal I, Elemental I, Plant I, etc. for purposes of this discussion. Now at 13th, he can pick up Animal II if he got Animal I at 10th, or he could branch out and take Elemental I. Then at 16th, he could take Animal III, or if he went Elemental I at 13th, then he could choose Animal II or Elemental II. You could set aside 4 different powers (Animal I-IV, Plant I-IV, etc.), so that someone sticking with one could get all four by 19th.

You could change the rate of progression from every 3 levels to every 2 levels, but that would require 6 different powers for each category (10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). This would give Druids a lot more chances to customize and 'dip' into a specialty area they may want and the few that 'stay the course' and top out their chosen fields would truly be the undisputed masters of their field.

I'd be interested in helping you further define what some of these abilities might be, but either a talent tree format or a model similar to the Rogue Special Ability progression seem like the best formats to use to develop this further.
 

Kerrick

First Post
I think the Shapechange option for Druids from the PHB2 addresses a few of your concerns about Wildshape and may actually solve your problem with it.
Not really familiar with that one.

Just a minor point here; your use of "lord" on these druid titles seems a bit off. Druids are supposed to work in concert with nature, not dominate it.
It's not a matter of "domination" so much as "exerting control over it" (though even that's not really accurate). I agree that druids work in concert with nature. I dunno... I could change it to "master" instead of "lord", but it would effectively be the same thing.

How do you justify losing a power with this stuff? If you know how to do it once, that knowledge doesn't just vanish. In modern terms, you don't forget how to ride a bike just because you learned how to drive a car.
I know.. that's why I hate the retraining rules. The original version of the druid (which you can see here used a talent tree system - four masteries, and you could advance in any or all of them as you wished. The problem is, a lot of the abilities kinda sucked. After I revised some of the other classes, I decided to go back to the druid and maybe remake it kind of where you have the four masteries and a pool of abilities for each.

Looking at it now, though, I see where I went wrong. I should probably do it like the fighter - four masteries and a pool of all the abilities, divided up by tier, with prereqs for the higher-level/more powerful stuff. A Verdant Lord could choose low-level Beastlord abilities, but the upper-tier abilities would be restricted to the Beastlord only.

It sounds like you're wanting to treat druids the way Jedi are treated in SWSE. Your elemental this, animal that, feel more like talent trees the way you are describing them--and if I am understanding your intention behind them.
I'm not familiar with SWSE, but talent trees are pretty much what I was going for.

Or you could do it in a similar fashion to Rogue Special Abilities.
I kind of revised the rogue, too - I extended the special abilities to start at L2 and divided them into Lesser, Moderate, and Greater, so they have a larger pool of things to choose from.

This would give Druids a lot more chances to customize and 'dip' into a specialty area they may want and the few that 'stay the course' and top out their chosen fields would truly be the undisputed masters of their field.
See above. I think we came to the same conclusion.

I'd be interested in helping you further define what some of these abilities might be, but either a talent tree format or a model similar to the Rogue Special Ability progression seem like the best formats to use to develop this further.
Thanks. I'll go over this and reshape it a bit, and I'll post a new version later.
 

nonsi256

Explorer
[FONT=&quot]>> Speak with Nature[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]A 16th level ability is far from “All Druids”.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]>> Resist nature's lure[/FONT]​
Coming this late in the game, you’ve already taken most of the “nature's lure” that you’re gonna take hroughout your adventuring career – making it a far less valuable feature.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And generally, why so many table fillers?[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]You already have FT & Druidic Mastery mentioned at levels 2 & 3. Use the other levels for additional features.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Also, I personally don’t like the need to choose a specific path, why not grant all abilities? (even if it would come at the expense of spell versatility).[/FONT]​
 

Kerrick

First Post
A 16th level ability is far from “All Druids”.
:rolleyes: Semantics. "All druids" means "any druid who reaches 16th level".

Coming this late in the game, you’ve already taken most of the “nature's lure” that you’re gonna take hroughout your adventuring career – making it a far less valuable feature.
8th level is "late in the game"?

And generally, why so many table fillers?
You already have FT & Druidic Mastery mentioned at levels 2 & 3. Use the other levels for additional features.
I'm open to suggestions. I don't want to make this thing overpowered, though - the whole intent of revising it is to remove the CoDzilla syndrome.

Also, I personally don’t like the need to choose a specific path, why not grant all abilities? (even if it would come at the expense of spell versatility).
See below.

---

I reorganized the mastery abilities a bit to make them look more like the fighter's combat style abilities. I think this will work a bit better. (Incidentally, the druid wouldn't really be "forgetting" his abilities so much as losing their use - think of them like powers granted by Nature instead of feats. It's a moot point now, but that was the original intent.)


Mastery of Animals: Beastlords are druids more attuned to the animal kingdom. A typical Beastlord knows every species of animal that lives in the area he protects, and often knows most individuals by sight. They often have a small entourage of wild and tamed animals around them, either openly following or within calling distance. Beastlords are most common in areas with varied animal life, but they can be found in any terrain or climate, from arctic to tropical, mountains to plains.

Beastlords are never attacked by animals unless the animal is attacked first, rabid, or under another person (or creature's) control; their level for purposes of animal companion abilities (and their effective level for gaining advanced companions) is treated as 2 higher than normal.

Mastery of Elements: Elemental Lords are druids who attune themselves to the earth itself - they can speak to the stones, feel life flowing through the ground, and control the flows of natural energy. LIke other druids, they serve as wardens, but their purpose is different - they head off natural disasters like earthquakes, forest fires, and volcanic eruptions before they start, or control them after they've already happened (forest fires are often necessary for some trees to spread their seeds, for example). They spend much of their time alone, away from civilization, and often underground - the better to feel the ebb and flow of the earth's energy.

(This one needs a new base ability.)

Mastery of Plants: Verdant Lords are dedicated to the preservation of nature in general and plant life in specific. A brief touch can make a plant look healthier, while a little attention and a few words can make a flower bloom. They are most common in areas with heavy plant life – rain forests and jungles, or just plain forests.

Verdant Lords are never attacked by sentient plants unless the plant is attacked first or is under another person (or creature's) control. They can also move through areas of undergrowth that have been magically enchanted to impede movement, like spike growth, without taking damage or being impaired.

Mastery of Weather: Stormlords are druids who have learned to control the weather (though "control" is often a misleading term – they typically "nudge" it a bit here and there to avoid drastic climate changes). They are among the most powerful of druids, able to call down lightning from a clear sky, summon or banish storms, and eventually call air elementals or other creatures of the sky.

Stormlords gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saves vs. severe weather (this includes extremes of heat and cold), a +4 bonus to Survival checks to predict the weather, and a +2 bonus to the save DCs for all weather-related spells they cast.

----

Adept (3rd)

Aspect of the beast: This is identical to the ranger ability of the same name.

Shocking touch (Su): At will as a standard action, a druid can deal 1d4 points of electricity damage with his touch. There is no save against this effect. If the target is wearing/carrying a large amount of armor, it takes 1d6 points of damage, and the druid can arc the shock up to 5 feet to hit it.

Wild Empathy (Ex): This is identical to the base druid ability.

Expert (7th)

Weather Resistance (Ex): Stormlords are immune to many effects of weather, due to their innate ability to control it. At first, this ability is relatively minor – a Stormlord won't get wet in a rainstorm, can move safely through a dust storm, sandstorm, or anything similar (no damage taken, and no chance of choking – this does not apply to spell effects like stinking cloud), and can call up a mild wind (up to 10 mph) at will as a standard action. In addition, he is not affected (no Fort save necessary) by any winds short of Severe, as long as he is on the ground – a druid who is flying (either from a spell, item, or polymorphed) is immune to winds up to Strong only.

Wild Form: As a standard action, the druid can change part of his body to that of an animal - head, hands/arms, or feet/legs - which must be one into which he can wildshape. He can make armed attacks with the new form's natural weapons, as a creature of his size (claw attacks generally deal 1d6 damage and a head butt or bite attack deals 1d4 damage). A druid with an animal head can't speak or cast spells using a verbal component; one with animal hands can't hold items or cast spells with somatic or material components. Using this ability counts as a use of wildshape.



Master (11th)

Elemental Form (Su): The Elemental Lord can choose an elemental form as one of his wildshape forms. Prerequisite: (Lesser-level Elemental or Storm ability)

Plant Shape (Su): A Verdant Lord can choose any creature of the Plant type as a form for his wild shape ability. Prerequisite: (Lesser-level Verdant ability)

Summon Elemental (Su): Once per day, as a full-round action, an Elemental Lord can summon one Large or two Medium elementals, provided there is a large enough source of the element nearby. The elementals follow his commands to the best of their abilities; they remain for 1 minute per class level or until killed or dismissed. An Elemental Lord can summon earth or fire elementals; a Stormlord can summon air or water elementals. Prereq: (Lesser-level Elemental or Storm ability)


Grandmaster (15th)

Control Element (Su): Three times per day, an Elemental Lord can control large amounts of elemental matter of his chosen type. In order to exert control, he must be within 5 feet per class level of the element and must be able to see or touch it. Gaining initial control of the element is a full-round action; thereafter, he must maintain concentration, and can control it for up to 1 round per class level. He can manipulate up to 10 cubic feet per class level, all of which must be touching - he can't control several separate fires, for instance.

What a druid can actually do is subject to the player's imagination and the DM's discretion. The druid could, for instance, create animals out of existing sources of fire and control their movement, or simply make a mass of fire move on its own; make the ground move (ripple, open up under someone or something, or rise), create hands to grapple or pummel, or change its consistency, turning earth into fine dust or quicksand, or stone into mud or sand. Treat a controlled elemental mass as an elemental of the same size, except that it has no hit points and cannot be damaged (but it can be dispelled).

The druid can relinquish control at any time as a free action; if he loses concentration for any reason, the element automatically becomes inert; fire constructs revert to their normal state (i.e., disperse), while earth usually remains changed (pillars of rock raised from the ground, for instance). Prereq: (Two lower-level Elemental abilities)

Control Plants (Su): Three times per day, a Verdant Lord can exert control over all nonsentient plants within 5 feet per class level. He can either maintain concentration and make them take specific actions or let them freely act on a given command.

If he concentrates, he can have the plants do anything of which they are capable – trees can move their branches to lash at or hinder opponents, vines and bushes can move to entangle foes or move out of the druid's way to provide a clear path. Plants cannot uproot themselves, however; if the druid loses his concentration, they will continue to carry out the last command given until he resumes concentration or the duration runs out.

If the druid gives a simple command, plants in the area will do their best to carry it out - again, to the limits of their abilities. As above, these commands are usually limited to hindering or killing foes – if they are hindering, each enemy must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the druid's level + druid's Wis bonus) each round or become entangled, as the spell; even on a successful save, they take 1d4 points of damage from thorns, lashing branches, etc. If the command is given to kill, each enemy must make a Reflex save each round or take 2d6 points of damage (a successful save halves the damage; a natural 1 doubles it).

The control lasts for 1 round per class level or until the druid dismisses it; commands can be no more than 10 words long and can be changed once per round as a standard action. Prereq: (Two lower-level Verdant abilities)

Control Weather (Su): Once per day, a Stormlord can call up a specific weather phenomenon – a tornado, strong winds, lightning, a rainstorm, etc. If there is not already a storm present, it requires 5 minutes to do so. Calling lightning, high winds, or other normal phenomena from a storm is a full-round action; the druid can direct lightning strikes (up to 1 per class level, as the call lightning spell) at any target he can see within 50 feet per class level. Prereq: (Two lower-level Storm abilities)
 

Kerrick

First Post
I was messing around with feats, and I thought of something. I tweaked Vermin Shape, Magical Beast Shape, and Dragon Shape so that they require 5, 15, and 25 ranks in Knowledge (nature) respectively; I thought about adding Plant and Elemental Shape in at 10 and 20, so that druids who don't get them as class abilities can take them normally. Thoughts?
 

Kerrick

First Post
So, after some playing around with things, here's what I've got for abilities. I still need a Beastlord and Verdant Lord ability at L11, and a Beastlord at L15. Suggestions are, as always, welcome.


Adept (3rd)

Aspect of the beast: This is identical to the ranger ability of the same name.

Elemental touch (Su): 1 + Cha bonus times per day, the druid can wreath one hand (his choice) in elemental energy (electricity, fire, or ice) as a move action. Melee touch attacks with this hand inflict 1d4 points of the appropriate energy damage, +1 per three class levels (no save). He can make up to one attack per three class levels with the elemental touch, and he can dispel it earlier if he wishes.

Summon Nature's Ally (Ex): The druid can spontaneously sacrifice any prepared spell to cast a summon nature's ally spell of the same level or lower.

Weather Resistance (Ex): Stormlords are immune to many effects of weather, due to their innate ability to control it. At first, this ability is relatively minor – a Stormlord won't get wet in a rainstorm, can move safely through a dust storm, sandstorm, or anything similar (no damage taken, and no chance of choking – this does not apply to spell effects like stinking cloud), and can call up a mild wind (up to 10 mph) at will as a standard action. In addition, he is not affected (no Fort save necessary) by any winds short of Severe, as long as he is on the ground – a druid who is flying (either from a spell, item, or polymorphed) is immune to winds up to Strong only.



Aspirant (7th)

Burgeoning Touch (Su): At will, a druid's touch can enable flowers to bloom, grass to sprout, or enable other minor plant growth. 1 + Cha bonus times per day, he can enact a greater amount of growth - causing a tree to sprout from a seedling (it grows to sapling size only), a vine to snake up a wall, a tree's roots to delve deeper (this is often used to break rocks or anchor the tree more securely), etc. Minor changes are a free action that can be used once per round; major changes require at least a full round of concentration to achieve the desired effect (though if the druid is interrupted, the ability doesn't fail; the plant merely stops growing at that point, which may be well short of where he wishes).

Vines and trees grow at the rate of 1 foot per round; saplings and bushes require a full minute to grow from a seedling, while flowers take only one round. Plants must be able to survive in the soil and climate where they are planted (no oak trees in the desert, cacti in the tundra, etc.), or the ability fails. Tree roots deal 2d10 points of damage to structures each round (bypassing hardness).

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks

Control Winds (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, the druid can call up a wind, as the gust of wind spell, as a move action, to blow in the direct he desires. The [[[exploration:weather | wind's strength]]] is dependent on the druid's class level: at 7th level it's moderate; at 11th, strong; at 15th, severe; and at 19th, windstorm. The druid can maintain the wind for up to 1 round per class level, and it requires concentration, but he change direction once per round as a free action.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks

Draw Upon Elemental Might (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, as a standard action, the druid can draw upon the power of an element. In order to do so, he must be touching a large source of that element (a roomful of air, the ground or a large rock, a large campfire, or a small pond or stream; in the case of fire, he need only be within 10 feet of it). This grants an enhancement bonus one or more ability scores, depending on the element:

Air: +4 Dex;
Earth: +2 Strength, +2 Con;
Fire: +2 Dex, +2 Cha;
Water: +2 Dex, +2 Wis.

The bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to half druid's class level plus his Wisdom bonus.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks

Summon Elemental (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, as a full-round action, the druid can summon one Large or two Medium elementals as the summon monster spell, provided there is a large enough source of the element nearby. The elementals follow his commands to the best of their abilities; they remain for 1 minute per class level or until killed or dismissed. The type of elementals the druid can summon is dependent on which ability he has: Elemental Lord abilities (elemental touch) let him summon earth or fire elementals; Stormloard abilities (weather resistance) let him summon air or water elementals. If he has abilities from both masteries, he can summon elementals of any kind.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks, Elemental touch or weather resistance.

Wild Form: At will, as a standard action, the druid can change part of his body to that of an animal - head, hands/arms, or feet/legs - which must be one into which he can wildshape. He can make armed attacks with the new form's natural weapons, as a creature of his size (claw attacks generally deal 1d6 damage and a head butt or bite attack deals 1d4 damage). If the creature is poisonous (snake head, e.g.), the druid can poison his victim; use the creature's standard poison. A druid with an animal head can't speak or cast spells using a verbal component; one with animal hands can't hold items or cast spells with somatic or material components. Using this ability counts as a use of wildshape.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks, aspect of the beast



Elder Druid (11th)

Animal Affinity (Su): The druid can, with a round of concentration, determine the location, identity, and status (alive, dead, sleeping) of all animals within 60 feet of him. 1 + Wis bonus times per day, he can "bond" with an animal, using its senses in place of his own. This does not grant him control - he is merely riding along with the animal, unless he has some other means of controlling it, like a spell. This sense bond is limited to sight and hearing, but the druid sees or hears everything that the animal can.

The druid can also attempt a bond with a magical beast with Intelligence 1 or 2, but he must be able to see it (he can't sense its presence) and he must make a DC 15 Wisdom check, as magical beasts are different from normal animals.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 10 ranks, summon nature's ally.

Control Elemental (Su): The druid can wrest control of an elemental from another person or gain control of an uncontrolled elemental. The former requires an opposed Charisma check, which can be made once per round as a standard action. The latter merely requires a Charisma check against DC 10 + the elemental's ECL, which can be made once per round as a standard action. This ability is usable at will.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 10 ranks, elemental touch or weather resistance, summon elemental

Flight: As a standard action, the druid can call upon the wind to bear him aloft. He can then fly (as the spell) at his normal base speed with perfect maneuverability for as long as he maintains concentration.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 10 ranks, Control winds


Hierophant (15th)

Control Element (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, an Elemental Lord can control large amounts of elemental matter. In order to exert control, he must be within 5 feet per class level of the element and must be able to see or touch it. Gaining initial control of the element is a full-round action; thereafter, he must maintain concentration, and can control it for up to 1 round per class level. He can manipulate up to 10 cubic feet per class level, all of which must be touching - he can't control several separate fires, for instance.

What a druid can actually do is subject to the player's imagination and the DM's discretion. An Elemental Lord could, for instance, create animals out of existing sources of fire and control their movement, or simply make a mass of fire move on its own; make the ground move (ripple, open up under someone or something, or rise), create hands to grapple or pummel, or change its consistency, turning earth into fine dust or quicksand, or stone into mud or sand. A Stormlord can can raise or lower water, as the spell control water, or create a small tidal wave (enough to swamp a small boat), or create tentacles of water that can snatch creatures nearby or in the water (within 10 feet of the water source) and drag them under to drown, or could create a miniature dust devil that deals 1d6 points of damage per round to anyone caught in it (creatures and objects of Tiny or smaller size could be swept away). Treat a controlled elemental mass as an elemental of the same size, except that it has no hit points and cannot be damaged (but it can be dispelled).

The druid can relinquish control at any time as a free action; if he loses concentration for any reason, the element automatically becomes inert; air, fire and water constructs revert to their normal state (i.e., disperse), while earth usually remains changed (pillars of rock raised from the ground, for instance).

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 15 ranks, elemental touch, control elemental


Control Plants (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, a Verdant Lord can exert control over all nonsentient plants within 5 feet per class level. He can either maintain concentration and make them take specific actions or let them freely act on a given command.

If he concentrates, he can have the plants do anything of which they are capable – trees can move their branches to lash at or hinder opponents, vines and bushes can move to entangle foes or move out of the druid's way to provide a clear path. Plants cannot uproot themselves, however; if the druid loses his concentration, they will continue to carry out the last command given until he resumes concentration or the duration runs out.

If the druid gives a simple command, plants in the area will do their best to carry it out - again, to the limits of their abilities. As above, these commands are usually limited to hindering or killing foes – if they are hindering, each enemy must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the druid's level + druid's Wis bonus) each round or become entangled, as the spell; even on a successful save, they take 1d4 points of damage from thorns, lashing branches, etc. If the command is given to kill, each enemy must make a Reflex save each round or take 2d6 points of damage (a successful save halves the damage; a natural 1 doubles it).

The control lasts for 1 round per class level or until the druid dismisses it; commands can be no more than 10 words long and can be changed once per round as a standard action.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 15 ranks, burgeoning touch

Control Weather (Su): 1 + Wis bonus times per day, a Stormlord can call up a specific weather phenomenon – a tornado, strong winds, lightning, a rainstorm, etc. If there is not already a storm present, it requires 5 minutes to do so. Calling lightning, high winds, or other normal phenomena from a storm is a full-round action; the druid can direct lightning strikes (up to 1 per class level, as the call lightning spell) at any target he can see within 50 feet per class level.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 15 ranks, control element, control winds
 

Sadrik

First Post
This may be blasphemy but move all the wildshape abilities to spells. Make them spontaneous casters, like we discussed with the cleric.

I philosophical principle that says animal companions, familiars, special mounts slow the game down. To tackle them I throw them all into the leadership feat. Get a henchman or get an animal pretty simple really when you think about it.

If wildshape is a spell, what class features are left? I only briefly looked through your class on the site perhaps give them domains but they can only access the naturey ones. I believe this is what they do in pathfinder.

I also like the druid becoming an elementalist stripping away the nature and religious cultural bent. I think that can easily be added back into them as a very good class option. This allows the class to fill more roles than simply being forest defenders.
 

nonsi256

Explorer
Hey Kerrick,​

I hate to be the spoilsport, but to my better judgment, there’s absolutely no punch in the features you've presented. There’s nothing in them that can’t be accomplished just as (or even more) easily with spells. And prereqs for class features seem quite out of place and an unjust.​
What I’m trying to say, is that it seems that omitting them would have negligible to zero implications on a character’s overall power or survivability.​
Furthermore, there are so few of them, and the long descriptions make them quite cumbersome for in-game use. You should find a way to use shorter descriptions without losing info (e.g. using preliminary notes that, among other things, specify that unless noted otherwise, in all cases of summoning, a summoned creature does its best to serve (just an idea of the top of my head)).​

Also, I don’t understand why you find it appropriate to create separate routes. A druid is supposed to bond with nature – to be a living conscious extension of it and tap into all its aspects (animal, plant and the elements (including weather)).​
Granting all aspects won’t make it overpowered in any particular area, just a lot more versatile and interesting.​

One last thing. When making changes, see if you could attach a file (with a level-progression table, of course) whenever you change things in a class.​
It’s a lot easier, for me at least, to assess things when I see everything in a single document and can check how everything fits in the big picture.​

 
Last edited:

Kerrick

First Post
This may be blasphemy but move all the wildshape abilities to spells. Make them spontaneous casters, like we discussed with the cleric.
Wild shape as a spell makes sense... I'm kind of stuck on the idea of them having it as a supernatural ability, but thinking about it, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. It's not based on any kind of myth from our history; I think I'll just make it into a feat chain like I was talking about. I've already got vermin, plant, magical beast, elemental, and dragon (in that order), so it wouldn't be hard to add animal shape.

I philosophical principle that says animal companions, familiars, special mounts slow the game down. To tackle them I throw them all into the leadership feat. Get a henchman or get an animal pretty simple really when you think about it.
That really makes sense too. With the rules for companions and such (which I combined into one system called "minions"), I could keep those and just say that it's a part of the special bond, which you don't get with a normal cohort. Would minions be considered cohorts? ???

If wildshape is a spell, what class features are left? I only briefly looked through your class on the site perhaps give them domains but they can only access the naturey ones. I believe this is what they do in pathfinder.
Not much... that's why I want to remake the druid - it's almost a one-trick pony.

I also like the druid becoming an elementalist stripping away the nature and religious cultural bent. I think that can easily be added back into them as a very good class option. This allows the class to fill more roles than simply being forest defenders.
That was the intent of the paths - to be more than just defenders of the forest and more caretakers/protectors of nature and the earth in general.

Hey Kerrick,​
I hate to be the spoilsport, but to my better judgment, there’s absolutely no punch in the features you've presented. There’s nothing in them that can’t be accomplished just as (or even more) easily with spells. And prereqs for class features seem quite out of place and an unjust.
I know... this class is very hard to come up with anything for it. I've got prereqs for the fighter and rogue, and no one's said anything about those. :)

[quote[What I’m trying to say, is that it seems that omitting them would have negligible to zero implications on a character’s overall power or survivability. Furthermore, there are so few of them, and the long descriptions make them quite cumbersome for in-game use. You should find a way to use shorter descriptions without losing info (e.g. using preliminary notes that, among other things, specify that unless noted otherwise, in all cases of summoning, a summoned creature does its best to serve (just an idea of the top of my head)).[/quote]
I'm not sure which ones you mean. I looked them over, and they seem pretty concise to me. *shrug*

Also, I don’t understand why you find it appropriate to create separate routes. A druid is supposed to bond with nature – to be a living conscious extension of it and tap into all its aspects (animal, plant and the elements (including weather)).
Customization, like I did with fighters and monks. Which might be where I'm falling down here - it's already too narrow a focus. I could probably easily turn some of that stuff into spells, change the rest into class abilities, and sprinkle them over 20 levels and have a decent class.

One last thing. When making changes, see if you could attach a file (with a level-progression table, of course) whenever you change things in a class.
I'd have to do it in HTML, since MS Office won't work on my computer for some reason and I can't make pdfs, but that's no problem - I'm converting everything to HTML docs anyway.

It’s a lot easier, for me at least, to assess things when I see everything in a single document and can check how everything fits in the big picture.
Same here. I'll toss this thing into the grinder and spit out a new version tomorrow.
 

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