D&D (2024) Revisiting Classes from OneD&D

[doctorbadwolf]

My guess, keep the option to choose any Beast within certain parameters, but provide a few templates in the Druid section for ease of use.

I really hope they get over the hopelessly false notion that wildshape is currently powerful, but also that they look to the Tasha’s summon spells, and give a handful of statblocks with at least that much customization.

 

[Parmandur]

I really hope they get over the hopelessly false notion that wildshape is currently powerful, but also that they look to the Tasha’s summon spells, and give a handful of statblocks with at least that much customization.

Yeah, it seems like a compromise is easily doable: give a few robust options that are easy to access, but let the deep divers...dive deep.

 

[Clint_L]

My guess, keep the option to choose any Beast within certain parameters, but provide a few templates in the Druid section for ease of use.

This seems like a good solution, especially given that they are backing away from making almost any major changes.

 

[Yaarel]

Oh, we already know Devotion is in, they texted it. I reckon the other 3 Paladin Subclasses are probably Vengence Ancients, and Conquest.

Formerly known as LG, CE, CG, and LE.

 

[Parmandur]

Formerly known as LG, CE, CG, and LE.

No, not necessarily: nothing about Vengence is "Evil" or even necessarily "Chaotic."

 

[Yaarel]

No, not necessarily: nothing about Vengence is "Evil" or even necessarily "Chaotic."

Of course, there are no long any alignment requirements.

I am talking about inheriting traditions.



(Vengeance in the sense of mercilessness can be evil. And tends to be personal, whence "chaotic", or even lawless. But there are other ways to apply the Paladin Oath, Vengeance.)

 

[Parmandur]

Of course, there are no long any alignment requirements.

I am talking about inheriting traditions.



(Vengeance in the sense of mercilessness can be evil. And tends to be personal, whence "chaotic", or even lawless. But there are other ways to apply the Paladin Oath, Vengeance.)

The Tenents of Vengence aren't Evil, though, maybe Chaotic Good (with Ancients being Neutral Good), but I think a bog part of the point of uncouomg Alignment is that you can have a Lawful Neutral Devotion Paladin or Neutral Good Conquest Paladin who interpret their traditions differently:

Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.

No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.

By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can't get in the way of exterminating my foes.

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

 

[Azzy]

From what I remember in Jeremy's video about it I think he said that the templates they gave us scored low. But all of us who saw the playtest could tell right away that they were basic templates and had no real oomph to them, no bells and whistles, nor were they reflective of the stuff that 5E14 wildshape would give us. So I don't think it would have been a surprise to them to see what they gave us as ranked low. Whether the concept of templated wildshape on the whole scored low-- that I don't think we know... only that these specific templates for wildshape did.

I know I told them in the survey that, while I didn't like the execution, I would be onboard with templates if they could be modified with options to emulate the features of existing critters.

I also told them that, at least for the Moon Druid, that not having (effectively) tempoorary hp in animal form ruins that subclass.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The Tenents of Vengence aren't Evil, though, maybe Chaotic Good (with Ancients being Neutral Good), but I think a bog part of the point of uncouomg Alignment is that you can have a Lawful Neutral Devotion Paladin or Neutral Good Conquest Paladin who interpret their traditions differently:

Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.

No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.

By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can't get in the way of exterminating my foes.

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

OTOH, Conquest is…not even an ideal, and making it your ideal cannot be Good in any sense. It shouldn’t be a Paladin Oath.

 

[Parmandur]

OTOH, Conquest is…not even an ideal, and making it your ideal cannot be Good in any sense. It shouldn’t be a Paladin Oath.

Yeah, the Tenents from Xanathar's are bit of a stretch for a non-Evil PC to uphold. Maaaaaaaaayne Lawful Neutral or a dick-ish True Neutral "must enforce The Balance."

Douse the Flame of Hope. It is not enough to merely defeat an enemy in battle. Your victory must be so overwhelming that your enemies’ will to fight is shattered forever. A blade can end a life. Fear can end an empire.

Rule with an Iron Fist. Once you have conquered, tolerate no dissent. Your word is law. Those who obey it shall be favored. Those who defy it shall be punished as an example to all who might follow.

Strength Above All. You shall rule until a stronger one arises. Then you must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.

I see it making it in the new PHB because it is a popular pick and different than the others mwchanically...though hopefully toned down by a lot, thematically.