Righteous Might projectile weapons error

[StreamOfTheSky]

Just pointing it out so DMs can be aware and houserule the mistake away.

Righteous Might - Pathfinder_OGC

"Any enlarged item that leaves your possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical effects that increase size do not stack."

This is plainly wrong, as Enlarge Person notes, projectile weapons deal damage based on launcher size. Only thrown weapons are affected by the downsize. Strangely, instead of just copy/pasting 3E on this one, Paizo went out of their way to be wrong, as I checked if this was a hold-over error from the 3E version.

Righteous Might :: d20srd.org

"All equipment you wear or carry is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves your possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them)."

 

[Mojo_Rat]

In pathfinder the only time projectile weapons keep their size is when it does not benefit the user so enlarge person, etc it does normal but reduce person it shrinks. There is no master rule regarding this though their should be but instead seems to be based on each individual spell

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

PATHFAIL!

Holy crap, you're right, and they don't even try to hide the fact that they're using inconsistent rules to damn the ranged weapon user no matter which spell he uses!

Reduce Person
Reduce Person says projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them, as in 3E, as in logical freaking sense. Obviously, this makes reduce person a bad spell for archers. But then, Enlarge Person...
Enlarge Person
COMPLETELY contradicts that, going out of its way to bone projectile weapon users even though, as per reduce person, "projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them."

Unbelievable! Of course, the Enlarge Person / Righteous Might text is plainly wrong, as in the PF weapons table, just as in the 3E one, weapon damage for bows and crossbows is listed on the bow/xbow line, not on the ammunition's line, clearly identifying what determines the amount of damage, as small bows deal less than medium bows and both use the same arrows.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

PATHFAIL!

Holy crap, you're right, and they don't even try to hide the fact that they're using inconsistent rules to damn the ranged weapon user no matter which spell he uses!

Reduce Person
Reduce Person says projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them, as in 3E, as in logical freaking sense. Obviously, this makes reduce person a bad spell for archers. But then, Enlarge Person...
Enlarge Person
COMPLETELY contradicts that, going out of its way to bone projectile weapon users even though, as per reduce person, "projectile weapons deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them."

Unbelievable! Of course, the Enlarge Person / Righteous Might text is plainly wrong, as in the PF weapons table, just as in the 3E one, weapon damage for bows and crossbows is listed on the bow/xbow line, not on the ammunition's line, clearly identifying what determines the amount of damage, as small bows deal less than medium bows and both use the same arrows.

Right but the table assumes likely that the arrow is the same size as the weapon. The weird part of it though is reduce person apparently works with thrown weapons.

 

[Azmyth]

Inconsistency, on the Enlarge/Reduce spells, certainly. But IMO, not an outright error as far as Righteous Might is concerned.
RM is more powerful spell than the previous mentioned and should not be categorized with the other two.

Enlarge/Reduce contradictions need to be addressed by Paizo. It has come up several times in Society play, where making the call isn't an option for the GM.

 

[frankthedm]

It would look less contradictory if pathfinder would have simply said "Projectile weapons do not benefit from being enlarged or reduced." To me that is the intent, and trying to justify that without saying that point blank is a Tad Disingenuous.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why do they not benefit from either? Either the ammunition determines damage or the projectile weapon determines the damage. You can't have it both ways. Reduce Person, consistent with the weapons table and ALL previous 3E sensibilities (Pathfinder wasn't supposed to to make itself incompatible with 3E generally, I thought?) states that the projectile weapon's size determines damage. If so, then Enlarge Person does increase the base damage of projectile weapons.

This isn't even a question of RAI or "game balance" (though I didn't realize archers eating -2 to hit and -2 AC for +2.5 damage was considered problematic, now I know), this is basic freaking logical reasoning.

 

[frankthedm]

This isn't even a question of RAI or "game balance" (though I didn't realize archers eating -2 to hit and -2 AC for +2.5 damage was considered problematic, now I know), this is basic freaking logical reasoning.

Which is WHY the issue is noted in the spell itself. Logic is already being put to the wayside when one grows to 12' tall.

As to whether the trade off was problematic, the fact that it was changed from 3.5 shows someone at Paizo though it was.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Which is WHY the issue is noted in the spell itself. Logic is already being put to the wayside when one grows to 12' tall.

No, versimilitude, in-game logic might be different than real life with magic and all. But this is a meta-game, rules-logic issue. They're saying X = Y and X =/= Y, they're blatantly contradicting themselves. If you still don't understand the distinction, I lack the eloquence to explain it any better than that.

 

[frankthedm]

EDIT: removing text for being to quarrelsome

It was a choice on piazo's part, I never said it wasn't damning the ranged weapon user.