D&D 5E Rogue Proficiency Bonus Doubling Question

[Kozilek]

My three questions are:

Am I correct in thinking that the Rogues "Double 2 Proficiencies" could be on anything which he was already proficient in, like his daggers, or the stealth skill, or the DEX saving throw, or the thieves tools?

Also, if he chooses to double his daggers or pistol* am I correct in thinking that only affects the to hit roll, not the damage?

So with proficiency 2 and DEX bonus +4 he would normally have +6 to hit with his finesse weapons, but if he chose it as one of his doubles he would go to +8 to hit?

Edit: 4th question. Would the Arcane Trickster be able to double his spell attack proficiency?

We are playing Iron Kingdoms with 5E rules, I as the DM am posting various things from 3E Privateer Press resources as well as home brewing a couple of subtle things to bring it all together. This Rogue is actually the base for a Gun Mage character, which is his speciality rather than Assassin or Arcane Trickster. I have not played since 2E so a bunch to read. We decided to get back into this after watching Critical Role.

Thanks in advance.

 

[delericho]

It has to be either two skills, or one skill and thieves' tools. So you can't double your bonus with a weapon or another implement.

(Questions 2, 3, and 4 therefore no longer apply.)

 

[Illithidbix]

As delericho said.

EXPERTISE

At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

At 6th level, you can choose two more of your proficiencies (in skills or with thieves’ tools) to gain this benefit.

The term "ability check" can throw people out a bit. Since Attack Rolls and Saving Throws function in a very similar way, but aren't Ability checks.

Everytime you roll a D20 and add an ability score and maybe your proficiency modifier then you're either:
Making a Attack Roll (if you're trying to hit Armor Class)
OR you're making a Saving Throw (when you're specifically told to make a Saving Throw to avoid danger).
OR you're making an "ability check" which is pretty much everything else that isn't an Attack Roll or Saving throw. Ability checks very often involve using skill or tool proficiencies, but sometimes don't.

 

[Kozilek]

Thank you both very much for the replies and for the clarification. Just starting to get the hand of this.

I was thinking it would be a bit nuts doubling the proficiency on an attack roll, especially as it increased.

We will decide on the Ability Checks or Thief Tools.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Good choices for a default rogue include:
* Thieves' tools -- since it's only possible for rogues to use Expertise this way.
* Perception -- to offset disadvantage in the dark/dim light.
* Stealth -- to counter people with good perception.
* Acrobatics -- to make yourself grapple-resistant (Athletics for a strength build).
* Sleight of Hand -- for Arcane tricksters, who will eventually use Mage Hand for everything.

 

[Arravis]

So, I take it it would be completely possible to choose a skill proficiency for a rogue's Expertise to be a skill gained from a Background?

 

[Tormyr]

So, I take it it would be completely possible to choose a skill proficiency for a rogue's Expertise to be a skill gained from a Background?

Yes, any skill the rogue has proficiency in for any reason (as well as Thieves' Tools) is eligible to be chosen for the Expertise feature.

 

[guachi]

In other words, Rogues are one of those classes where at some point in character creation you stop fiddling with class related abilities, figure out your background, and then finish up your class.

You get expertise in two skills and you might not have even picked all your skills yet!

 

[Arravis]

That's what I thought, I just wanted a confirmation. I've made a character that's an advisor to arcanists, wizards, etc., but he doesn't cast spells himself. The rogue class + sage background allowed me to maximize his Arcana skill efficiently.

Anyway, I had tried to build him in the D&D Beyond character builder and was unable to. I went ahead and reported it:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-...ue-expertise-not-allowing-my-to-pick-from-all

 

[Illithidbix]

This is a bit of an old thread, but a good use of forum search.

So, I take it it would be completely possible to choose a skill proficiency for a rogue's Expertise to be a skill gained from a Background?

Nothing in the expertise class description states the skill proficiency has to be one from the rogue's class list.
So I see no reason why Expertise would exclude something like Arcana or similar granted from the character's background.

EXPERTISE

At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

At 6th level, you can choose two more of your proficiencies (in skills or with thieves’ tools) to gain this benefit.