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Rogue survival in the land of the unliving. Looking for advice...

SteelDraco

First Post
I'd recommend shooting for Skullclan Hunter, from the Miniatures Handbook. It's a cool class for an undead-hunting rogue, mostly because it lets you use your sneak attack against 'em. You get some immunities as well, which is fun.

Requirements are good alignment, 8 ranks in Kn (Religion), 2d6 sneak damage, and the ability to turn undead.

Just take one level in cleric, and then use your turning ability to qualify for the class, and fuel divine feats. Sacred Vengeance is nice if you know you're going to be fighting undead.

Honestly, though, you might ask the DM if you can fiddle with that character. A character intended to be front-line with a Strength of 8 is going to be bad at his job; that's the way it goes. The spiked chain shtick isn't all that good if you don't have the feats to burn on it (Improved Trip and eventually Whirlwind Attack is where it's at). A rogue3/cleric2/skullclan hunter3 would be a much more effective undead-killer than the one you're describing, and would avoid the XP penalty.

Another good option is to see if your DM would allow you to find or have made an item of Grave Strike. This would let you sneak attack undead for a round, getting in a few good shots against someone who isn't expecting it. Undead almost always have low hit points for their CR, so there's a reason that sneak attack usually doesn't work on them - it kills them too quickly. But being able to do it 3/day or something for a single round would probably be acceptable. It's worth bringing up, at least.
 

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Shadeus

First Post
SteelDraco said:
A character intended to be front-line with a Strength of 8 is going to be bad at his job; that's the way it goes.

It's a Str of 11 actually, his rogue level is 8. (I made the same mistake.)

Regardless, you might be able to get a way with scrolls of grave strike which even in the wand doesn't fly, it's only a DC 21 check vs. the DC 20 wand. If you are good, you might consider getting your weapon sanctified (from Book of Exalted Deeds). It does an extra 1d4 vs. undead if I remember right.
 

Kalendraf

Explorer
SteelDraco said:
I'd recommend shooting for Skullclan Hunter, from the Miniatures Handbook. It's a cool class for an undead-hunting rogue, mostly because it lets you use your sneak attack against 'em. You get some immunities as well, which is fun.

Requirements are good alignment, 8 ranks in Kn (Religion), 2d6 sneak damage, and the ability to turn undead.
His alignment is neutral. If anything he's been drifting ever so slightly toward Lawful Neutral in the last few adventures (to avoid issues with the local law enforcement), but his intent has not really been for good. Picking up a level of cleric and imposing exp penalties also seems like a rather steep price to pay at this point.

A rogue3/cleric2/skullclan hunter3 would be a much more effective undead-killer than the one you're describing, and would avoid the XP penalty.
Obviously it would be nice to go back and retool the character at this point, but this character spent his prior 8 levels in a totally different plane where he never faced undead, so it really wouldn't make sense from a character-development standpoint to have been setup that way.

Part of what makes this campaign interesting is the whole fish-out-of-water aspect. None of the characters were really designed to face undead, and now a large part of what is driving our sessions is finding ways to deal with them, and hopefully we can eventually find our way off this godforsaken plane. However, it looks like that will likely take a very long time (several more levels?) so in the meantime we are scrapping to make due.
 
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pawsplay

Hero
For level 9, take another level of rogue, and for the love of pete, take Combat Reflexes so you can get some use out of that spiked chain. After that, you want dodge, mobility, spring attack.

I notice you haven't posed your equipment. And let me just say that when it comes to rogues facing the undead, it's all about equipment.

First of all, you've got your handy, dandy +1 bane vs. undead spiked chain, for the low, low price of under 9000 gp. As a rogue, you will never regret making this purchase. To go with it, let me recommend some accessories.... many of our customers like oil of greater magic weapon, turning a +1 weapon with a special property into a + lots weapon with a special property.

Second, you need some ranged attacks. And by ranged attacks, I mean, mean stuff. First, you need a sling, in case you run into skeletons. Second, you need all the alchemist's fire and holy water you can your hands on. Third, if you can swing it, you could use some +1 bane ammunition for whatever missile weapon you keep around.

11 ranks of UMD isn't great, but it's decent enough if you have range on your side. Wands of fireball, wands of searing light, and wands of magic missile are your bread and butter.

Then you need some weapons of last resort. How many spiked chains are you carrying? Carry at least a spare, nonmagical one, and use it for tripping. Since the party lacks melee, that means it's a perfectly legitamate use of your time to try to make opponents prone. Even with a low bonus, it has to work sometime, and you can drop the spiked chain if it doesn't work.

You're a low-Str, small size spiked chain wielder... you need extra damage on every hit. At this level, you should looking into bane weapons, elemental damage, and items that boost Str. You also need to solve your defensive problem; you're not going to get anywhere attacking with -5 to hit all the time.

Do you have any summoners in the group? You could attack with your chain at 10' then step behind another creature, gaining cover and forcing your opponent to at least move again. If no one else is filling this role, a wand of summon monster III can get some small fire elementals into play, for damage, flanking, and using as cover.
 

geosapient

First Post
Wouldn't a spiked chain designed for a gnome only be 5' reach? A gnome couldn't use a regular spiked chain since it's normally a double weapon, right?
 


frankthedm

First Post
Can you get an +1 undead bane vicious spiked chain? You should have the HP to soak the bite of the vicious weapon. 5d6-1 is solid damage.

Or…Get a new character. Rogues can run interference and later use UMD against undead for a party that has the front line taken care of. A Small rogue has NO business being part of the front line when the undead show up.

The Party lacks many melee types, meaning that he often finds himself on the front line. plus campaign setting that is dominated by the unliving makes it sound like the party needs a full Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin or Cleric.

Maybe a Holy Undead-bane repeating crossbow.
 

Kalendraf

Explorer
geosapient said:
Wouldn't a spiked chain designed for a gnome only be 5' reach? A gnome couldn't use a regular spiked chain since it's normally a double weapon, right?
From the SRD, the reach of a spiked chain is 10' for both medium and small sized characters. The only difference is the damage (2d8 for medium vs. 1d6 for small).

In other words, it acts much like a range increment for a ranged weapon. For example, whether the wielder is medium or small, the range of a sling is 50', and it's only the damage that varies.

pawsplay said:
I notice you haven't posed your equipment. And let me just say that when it comes to rogues facing the undead, it's all about equipment.
That does seem to be a recurring theme in 90% of these responses. That's somewhat unfortunate because as escaped slaves we don't have a lot of gold to work with, and the ability to buy magic items is somewhat problematic as well.

For the record, my current items are as follows:
+1 Spiked chain w/ special ability to forego damage on an attack and attempt to grapple a foe (STR 15) upon command at which point it can be dropped and continue the grapple (just got this last session, so I have no idea how useful it will be, but I'll obviously need a 2nd spiked chain for times I use the special ability)

Shadow Shroud (+2 deflection AC, 20% miss while in shadows)
Charm Necklace (+2 profane AC vs undead)
+2 Bracers of Defense
Scarab of Golembane (stone)
Potion of Remove Paralysis
7 Magic sling bullets (no idea what they are yet, rolled a 1 on my only attack with one and lost it in a swamp)
Several vials of Alchemist fire (which did most of his damage in the last session), Acid and Holy Water.

I also have a +1 Cloak of Resistance being crafted at the moment, and I have about 6K gold left to spend at the moment.
 



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