Roleplaying? Yeah right!

[Oryan77]

I've played with a lot of different gamers and I always mention how I'm a more roleplay/storytelling DM than a hack-n-slasher or powergamer. Everyone that I met always said they like roleplaying in D&D. The thing I've noticed is that very few of them ever actually roleplayed in the games I played with them. If an NPC spoke in character to a PC, I'd get responses like, "Sure", "Uh, I guess so", or "I'm attacking him!"

I've realized that with my current group, since only 1 out of 4 players is big into roleplaying, I've turned into nothing more than a hack-n-slash DM....and I hate that. Doing this for almost 2 years has effected my ability to roleplay well. Now when I roleplay I feel like I'm really lame. The players don't respond much at all and that doesn't help me get into character either.

Everyone enjoys the game & actually makes a great effort to attend every session. But I'm thinking now that the only reason they like my game is because it resembles a more elaborate chess game with cool miniatures. No one makes an effort to be involved in the campaign world and no one tries to give any life/character to their PC's. They just wait for me to railroad them into doing something. It's all about combat and how they can beat my encounters the easiest and metagame my actions as a DM.

Events recently happened that have really grinded my interest with the game/group to nothing. I had a player kill last session (only my 3rd kill ever as a DM). The player is a huge powergamer which conflicts a lot with my DM'ing style. I've been trying to roll with it but he recently ruined a possible roleplay encounter (yet again) for the group and myself by basically saying "I'm not wasting time with talking...I attack him". It's like he thought he was going to get a strategic advantage by being the first to initiate combat. For roleplaying reasons the BBEG & his henchmen were going to focus on killing him first out of the group since he attacked them. They wanted the rest of the PCs as slaves. Since he's the powergamed tank, it was difficult to kill him via straight tactical combat. So I took another approach...try killing him by roleplaying.

Long story a little shorter....after a long battle, the BBEG lied to the powergamer and told him if he gives up and removes his buffs & equipment, he will just be thrown into their prison cell until they figure out what to do with him. The player figured he may not have to die fighting and will live to see another day, so he gave up. After he was no longer a threat, the BBEG told his henchmen to slaughter him; which they did.

I was dissapointed in this ending up with his PC dead because I had created a lot of sub-plots for his PC to try and get him involved into the campaign world more. But I was also sort of glad for the kill because his powergamed character was starting to get annoyingly lame. I hoped he might try to make a more interesting and less powergamed character. But nope, he makes an even more powergamed PC. This new PC is even harder to threaten in combat and that's without any buffs. In an attempt to try and tone it down so he's more balanced with other PCs who are higher level than him yet easier to kill than him, I told him he couldn't have a couple of magic items that he wanted since I never would have handed them out as treasure. Rather than comply and make different selections, he argued with me and said I'm "nerfing" his new PC. Then he has the balls to actually tell me that he roleplayed his last PC "so well that it got him killed". I'm still scratching my head about that one.

The groups method of gathering information about a BBEGs plot is to just kill everyone and if any of them seem like they might be the BBEG, then they rest for a day and prepare Speak with Dead spells. I'm not sure if that counts as "roleplaying". The only time I can think when this player roleplayed is if I tried to give more life into a friendly NPC and initiated a conversation with him....and even then he struggled with the roleplaying.

I'm feeling pretty burned out with the game now because nothing interests me in the campaign since all it is is combat after combat with no substance in between. Then I have to deal with players yelling at me when I try to make it more interesting for myself. Us DMs need to have our fun too!

What do players think roleplaying is? I'm wondering if I just have a different interpretation of it from playing with my actual friends from my hometown. Do people think it's roleplaying if you occasionally shout out "Charge!" before a battle or if you tell the DM, "I'll try to heal Bob's unconscious PC with a cure wand before I retreat"? I mean, the particular player I mentioned won't even spend gold on beer or tavern food because it's a waste of money that could go towards scrolls. He just uses his rations & water and the player sits quietly & reads the Spell Compendium while other players are having drinking contests with NPCs in the tavern. I don't believe any well-roleplayed character would enjoy to live off of rations & water. :\

 

[Rothe]

You got it. I wouldn't draw a line between third and first person exposition, both can be effect if interacting with the world/NPCs in a back and forth fashion. IME we typically start in third person then as interest builds into more of a first person interaction. Again, IME many people can be uncomfortable/unsure with such in character exposition and need to warm to it. Not that some ever will...

 

[DragonLancer]

It depends on what you think roleplaying is. There are some many interpretations. If you are expecting people to talk in character and put on accents or be an amateur thespian then I think you are in a losing battle. If you want your players to be more talk than kill, then thats more likely but it seems a dying breed these days.

I'll say now, that I had a player like that (and I have in the past) they wouldn't be in the group very long. It's disruptive and not in the style of the DM nor the other players, and it sounds more like he needs to find a gaming group which supports kick-in-the-door and hack-slash style games.

 

[Aus_Snow]

If you are expecting people to talk in character and put on accents or be an amateur thespian then I think you are in a losing battle.

Sometimes, if you persist, you can coax/inspire others. Even if it's just a bit - that's better than nothing, IMO. That can sure take courage (and perseverance) however. Hm. Actually. . . stubbornness and foolishness, perhaps.

If you want your players to be more talk than kill, then thats more likely but it seems a dying breed these days.

Gods, I hope not.


Worst case scenario, Oryan, you could try supplementing the tabletop with some online play, like maybe PbP? Often, that provides ample opportunity for, or even requires, 'being in character' - albeit via text. Not the perfect solution I know, but as I said, worst case. . .

Just a thought.

 

[Psion]

I like interesting roleplaying.

Yammering with shopkeeps is not interesting roleplaying. I usually say "yeah sure" to that sort of thing here.

Without having first hand experience of your games, I can't fairly accuse you of being part of the problem here. But I will say this: not all NPC interaction interludes are worthy of zooming in on in game time. So pick your battles.

 

[shilsen]

Have you spoken to your players about what you want to see in the game and think of as roleplaying? As far as I'm concerned, the best way to achieve a balance that both DM and players are happy with is through clear and constant communication. Of course, even after that you may find no real meeting ground with your players, but you can't be sure about that until you try to sit down and talk with them.

 

[hong]

I never call it "roleplaying". I call it "showboating". I like me someone who can showboat.

 

[Fifth Element]

What do players think roleplaying is? I'm wondering if I just have a different interpretation of it from playing with my actual friends from my hometown.

There are as many different definitions of roleplaying as there are players. It's pretty clear that you have a different preferred style of gaming than your players, and that's an issue that needs to be addressed. Some sort of compromise should be available.

But check the attitude. Your post seems to complain that the players are having BadWrongFun, and that this BWF is not actually roleplaying. It doesn't matter if it's "roleplaying" or not. It's a game, and it's meant to be enjoyed. But all the participants need to have fun, and that's the issue that needs to be addressed, not whether the players are "roleplaying" properly.

 

[bento]

Sounds like our two groups could be interchangable at times.

When I started with my current group at the pre-game meet-up everyone said they really like the story telling aspects, but once we got started most of them only responded to combat situations. I now feel that RPing seems a little strained for me and it's turning into a echo-chamber effect.

I have one player, who, while a powergamer in the sense that his character is created to dish out maximum damage, invested skill points in six different languages so he can chat up most monsters. Another player is a fighter with only Intimidate as a social option, and a third that can be easily de-railed into combat at a moment's notice.

For the most part I've stopped trying to be too elaborate with parlay encounters. Anytime I want them to parlay rather than outright kill an NPC I make (and clearly show) the NPC as someone they don't want to mess with. I had one old wizard who had several wands dangling from his robes. Another was a slave master had two ogres for bodyguards.

I think the best thing to do (and it worked for another group I GMed last year) is to play something besides "standard D&D." I find D&D (D20) brings out the tactical nature of players more than I like if I want to have decent RPing. When I moved our game to True20, their need for XP was taken away and shifted to successfully completing missions to level up. They were more willing to parlay and find non-lethal means to get what they want. If you don't want to go that far, you can always use player tokens, where users reward each other for role playing their characters (and you give XP to the person with the most tokens won).

There are too many options for changing things around to not try them. And if your players complain they want more combat, you could always try board games or DDM.

 

[Clavis]

I hate powergamers.

Let me rephrase that.

I hate carrot cake. I hate Euro disco. I hate liver. But I can understand that other people like these things, and their opinions are just as valid as mine.

I simply don't tolerate powergamers, on the other hand. I would rather not play at all than have to play with them. I won't subject my players, who love to spend entire sessions just interacting with NPCs and each other in-character, to the juvenile power fantasies and non-existent social skills of the average powergamer.

I sympathize with any DM who find himself stuck with powergamers in his group. My personal advice is to expel the offending player(s), and run the game you like. You'll be amazed at who you can get to play in your game (such as girls!) once the powergamers are no longer ruining the experience at the table by refusing to roleplay. If the powergamers just want to pretend to have kewl powers so they can simply kill things, they should be directed to World of Warcraft. There they won't have to worry about icky, adult things like characterization and story.

Some kinds of "Fun" really are Bad and Wrong.