Pathfinder 1E Rules Rules Rules! >:(

[Greenfield]

There's a lovely section in the back of the MM, on how to create your own monsters.

Do that, then watch him scramble as he tries to look them up. When he can't find your custom creature to argue stats or abilities and complains, tell him his character lost his action that round while looking through his Big Book of Monsters.

 

[Dozen]

So general rules for gaming
Don't play with toxic people. Toxic, includes mental health problems,

Are you not capable of shame? You are saying people are supposed to send me away from their tables because of a handicap!
What century you live in? Which toilet did you flush down your sense of equality in? And yet you have the sheer, unlimited audacity to say toxic players are not allowed to play, when you are posting unfounded, stupid, generalized bigotry as it was a fact of life to protect your ridiculous idea of what fair play is!

You know what, I wouldn't wait until you open the MM mid game. I flat out refuse to DM for you, or play with you, ever. Not that I am allowed to play with your sane excellencies, apparently.

...undeveloped social skills...

So nerds are not allowed to be nerds. The mind reels. I'm aware we as a community are getting better at social interaction, step by step. Still, you would deny someone to engage in their hobby? Because they're awkward? God.
Well, then you aren't allowed to play either. If you were such a social butterfly, you'd at least go out of your way to conceal your hate somewhat. Priviledge-based rights bite back often, don't they?

...rules lawyers...

Oh, talking back to the DM about what the game clearly defines as being under DM jurisdiction doesn't count, I see. Some fellows from Wesboro called, by the way. They said they'd want to give you an award, but regrettably you worship Satan through a tabletop game, thus they can't. Too bad.

 

[Greenfield]

Every person has the right to decide who they want to spend time with. (Your wants and likes may not be the final word, but your right to want them is absolute.)

I know a rules lawyer like the one described in the OP. Heck, for all I know he could *be* the one described in the OP. I invited him to my table, knowing what he was.

My thought was that, while he was a self proclaimed expert on the rules (even though he was frequently wrong), he wasn't pathological about it. He could curb his abrasive tendencies if he choose to, and if he had the right incentives. (I.e got told by the DM to can it).

He didn't accept.

We have another player, new to our table, who's a military veteran with a few problems. (Traumatic brain injury, PTSD, hears voices, the whole thing.) He's having problems adapting, and has a few focus issues, but he's working on it and we're being patient with him and his difficulties. He's Mr. "and hide" that I've mentioned in a few other threads.

A third player from the same clique sat in for a bit and didn't fit. We didn't toss him, we just made it clear that he had to play by the rules. He chose to walk, and to be frank I say good riddance.

Now, did I , as the host of the game, have some "obligation" to invite either one in, even knowing that they're "toxic" personalities? Of course not. It isn't a question of which century I'm in or from, or how "enlightened" I am. It's my home, my game, and my choice who I associate with. Why should I intentionally spend my time in a game with people who *work* at leeching the fun out of it?

It's a game. If it isn't fun, why do it? And if someone is poisoning that fun, why play with them?

 

[Dozen]

A third player from the same clique sat in for a bit and didn't fit. We didn't toss him, we just made it clear that he had to play by the rules. He chose to walk, and to be frank I say good riddance.

Now, did I , as the host of the game, have some "obligation" to invite either one in, even knowing that they're "toxic" personalities? Of course not. It isn't a question of which century I'm in or from, or how "enlightened" I am. It's my home, my game, and my choice who I associate with. Why should I intentionally spend my time in a game with people who *work* at leeching the fun out of it?

It's a game. If it isn't fun, why do it? And if someone is poisoning that fun, why play with them?

Of course! That goes without saying. But notice what he said:

So general rules for gaming

General. That is, applies to everyone. By his logic, I'm not allowed to play anywhere. As in, literally forbidden, no exceptions. Nor are awkward players, and a number of other people who aren't necessarily disruptive, based on a label that applies to them. Including but not limited to your Mister "and hide" buddy. There is difference between preferance and black-and-white thinking.

And even if he wasn't saying that, his terminology only shows how man sh*ts he actually gives. "Toxic", he says. As if my mental disorder was dangerous to your health, and I should be avoided at all times lest he catches some cooties that accumulate in you over time.
I refuse to be treated as cancerous growth in a community I take part in for fun, for a single aspect of what I am.

 

[Umbran]

Toxic, includes mental health problems...

I understand that our society has a great deal of trouble dealing with mental health. I will even concede that there are some mental health problems which would be problematic in a gaming social situation, such that you'd not want to have such folks in your game.

However, your blanket coverage there is yet one more bit of negative stereotyping we do not need. The world does not need more ignorant perpetuation of stigma. Please, in the future, take care in how you approach the subject.

Are you not capable of shame? You are saying people are supposed to send me away from their tables because of a handicap!
What century you live in? Which toilet did you flush down your sense of equality in? And yet you have the sheer, unlimited audacity to say toxic players are not allowed to play, when you are posting unfounded, stupid, generalized bigotry as it was a fact of life to protect your ridiculous idea of what fair play is!

Dozen, I understand the reasons why you're blowing up here. However, this will not help the conversation to move forward in a constructive manner. Getting aggressive will not teach Jasper, or anyone else, a darned thing about how to deal with folks with mental health issues, or even why they're wrong to speak in such a manner. Please, if you see such things in the future, report the post and allow the moderators to handle the offense, rather than take it on yourself.

We expect that, from this point forward, the subject of those with mental health problems will be approached with mindfulness and respect. If there's any question about how or why to do that, please drop an e-mail or private Message to the moderator of your choice to discuss it. Thanks, all!

 

[Dozen]

Dozen, I understand the reasons why you're blowing up here. However, this will not help the conversation to move forward in a constructive manner. Getting aggressive will not teach Jasper, or anyone else, a darned thing about how to deal with folks with mental health issues, or even why they're wrong to speak in such a manner. Please, if you see such things in the future, report the post and allow the moderators to handle the offense, rather than take it on yourself.

... I understand. Sorry Umbran, you're right. I'm just going to take my pills and lie down a little.

 

[Greenfield]

Of course! That goes without saying. But notice what he said:



General. That is, applies to everyone. By his logic, I'm not allowed to play anywhere. As in, literally forbidden, no exceptions. Nor are awkward players, and a number of other people who aren't necessarily disruptive, based on a label that applies to them. Including but not limited to your Mister "and hide" buddy. There is difference between preferance and black-and-white thinking.

And even if he wasn't saying that, his terminology only shows how man sh*ts he actually gives. "Toxic", he says. As if my mental disorder was dangerous to yoru health, and I should be avoided at all times lest he catches some cooties that accumulate in you over time.
I refuse to be treated as cancerous growth in a community I take part in for fun, for a single aspect of what I am.

Here's the thing. "Toxic" is a relative term. Behavior that some find toxic might not be a disqualifying issue with a different group. Hell, I used to play with a guy whose stated purpose for joining the gaming club was to "get into interesting arguments". (Admitted, I didn't play with him very often, as he really was an ass). And let's be honest, most of us aren't psychologists, and aren't in any way qualified to differentiate between "mental illness" and plain old oddity.

So his "general rule" was, don't play with obnoxious people, or those who can't (or won't) play by the rules, or who can't/won't "play well with others".

Not exactly "Jim Crow" when you look at it that way, is it?

 

[Dozen]

Here's the thing. "Toxic" is a relative term. Behavior that some find toxic might not be a disqualifying issue with a different group. Hell, I used to play with a guy whose stated purpose for joining the gaming club was to "get into interesting arguments". (Admitted, I didn't play with him very often, as he really was an ass). And let's be honest, most of us aren't psychologists, and aren't in any way qualified to differentiate between "mental illness" and plain old oddity.

So his "general rule" was, don't play with obnoxious people, or those who can't (or won't) play by the rules, or who can't/won't "play well with others".

Not exactly "Jim Crow" when you look at it that way, is it?

I honestly can't tell. My head is a mess. Please, leave the issue for now. Act like it never happened, it's only halfway related to the thread anyway. Between the meds and the rage built up, I can't think clearly enough for a reasonable conversation. Let this be a topic for another day.

 

[Greenfield]

Done.

 

[jasper]

done also