Rules that never made sense to you?

[TYPO5478]

The first sign of a broken rule is when someone suggests that the way to stop it is by readying an action.

Really?

You mean like spellcasting?

 

[pemerton]

Why do you need to [find the link between dodging abilities?

<snip>

I think your whole point in this exercise is that parts of the system are too complicated. But, I'm not sure.

I wasn't objecting to complication. I'm saying that it is hard to interpret all this in-game. Why do I want an in-game interpretation? Because I want to understand the nature and physical abilities of the characters.

In the real world, I can't imagine what sort of person would be good at partially dodging fireballs, but could never fully dodge them, could not dodge weapons and could not dodge foes. But such a character is very normal in D&D (the Bard in my example), while there are other characters (the Rogue in my example) who can dodge lots of things, but never partially dodges fireballs, only completely or not at all.

I just have trouble trying to work out what this means for the characters in question.

By linking Tumbling to Reflex saves, one dimension of the problem would be resolved, as a whole lot of dodging, rolling and flipping out of the way would be unified. But (as I said above) I don't see how Evasion can easily be fitted into this.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Scarier, probably. But which one is more likely to get you to do what they want? I'm not putting my money on Greene or Nagurski.

Your problem is that you continue to confuse to colloquial small "i" intimidate with the 3e Intimidate skill. They are not the same. Conflating them leads you to the false conclusion that "strong, scary guys" should automatically be better at the Intimidate skill. Big and scary is not what it is about. Getting what you want out of someone is. That is why it is a Charisma based skill.

I don't know that any of us are really qualified to make such a call... Have Mean Joe green or Joe Mantana ever tried to Intimidate one of us into doing something? Anyone that one of us knows? Anyone that one of us has ever heard about?

I mean... If Mike Tyson came up to you and said, "Gimme all your money or I'll bite your ear off." and then Joe Montana said, "Give ME all your money or I'll throw this football at you." who are you going to be more likely to submit to? I don't believe that this question can be honestly answered without having been in that situation before, and since it's not terribly likely to come up... It seems to be rather beside the point.

Later
silver

 

[The Blue Elf]

Caster Level?

 

[billd91]

I think this pretty well sums up the charisma debate. Since the thread is titled, "Rules that never made sense," is there another attribute that would make more sense?

There very well may be from time to time. That's why I like the variant rule on p 33 of the DMG. Use the stat bonus that's closest to the actual application. Threaten physical violence? Use Strength for the intimidation stat. Going for a more subtle approach? Use Charisma.

 

[Deset Gled]

For example, I still use the tripping rules, even though they don't account for combat skill.

On a similar note, why can I trip with a guisarme and a halberd, but not with a glaive or a quarterstaff?

 

[ivocaliban]

There very well may be from time to time. That's why I like the variant rule on p 33 of the DMG. Use the stat bonus that's closest to the actual application. Threaten physical violence? Use Strength for the intimidation stat. Going for a more subtle approach? Use Charisma.

D'Oh! Where were you a couple of hours ago?

 

[Allegro]

I always thought charisma or force of personality was more appropriate for resisting compulsions then wisdom.

 

[pemerton]

The balance skill. The only time I've ever seen "balancing" has been in the form of reflex saves vs. grease and other effects.

I should have put that in my list of complaints about mutliple inconsistent dodging-type mechanics. Here's another one.

 

[KarinsDad]

Scarier, probably. But which one is more likely to get you to do what they want? I'm not putting my money on Greene or Nagurski.

Montana would do it with Diplomacy.

Getting someone to do what you want is not restricted to the Intimidation skill.