D&D 5E Running D&D 5e for Levels 10+
ClaytonCross
Kinder reader Inflection wanted
More what? I makes since that balance is harder and more group dependent higher level the characters are. The GM has to counter for the group. What would you do to counter for later game access to an increasing number of magical equipment items, increase funds, more spells, and more class abilities that open a huge number of play possibilities based on group selection and individual player choices if you have no idea what those choices are or if the opted to homebrew and without knowing what optional rules like feats they are using? The more freedom and tools the games gives the harder for the designers to hope to balance it. Its so much more than an MMO like WOW the balance comparison is not relevant.
His player was absent that day and one of the other players was running his PC, which was why I picked him.
The way I approach this would be to look at the daily XP for each character. That value is 9000 each per the DMG, p 84. Through experiment with my home group and the Adventures League game I've found that 10% to 15% of that total makes for an interesting encounter that I would consider easy to medium. Three CR 3 creatures is 5400 XP which falls in line with that estimate. The group would use about 10% to 15% of their resources on this encounter. Five CR 3 creatures is 20% of their daily total (9000 x 5) and I would consider this a medium to hard challenge. Ten CR 3 creatures is 40% of the groups daily total. If you hit them with this encounter at the start of the day they should complete it without a death. The twenty CR 3 creatures is 80% of their daily total and you should have at least one character death. Using this system, I've found that resource utilization is not evenly distributed among the characters. The barbarian is going to use more resources (HP) early, depending on how many fireballs the wizards throws out. Some players will be looking to have a long rest before other players because they used about 75% to 80% of their resources (HP, spell slots, rage, battle dice, ki, lay on hands, etc.). I feel that targeting 75% usage of team resources makes for an interesting combat game. This means targeting the 15% to 20% of daily XP 6 to 4 times per day, respectively.
To hit those targets of XP use I remind the players of about what time of day it is for the characters. Typically I'll say something like, "It's about 10:00 or so. Early morning but after breakfast." If the characters have used about 20% to 30% of their resources by the "It's about lunch time" reminder and one character has taken the brunt of the resource drain, I've had them indicate they are taking a long rest. Depending on their tactic to hide themselves during the long rest, they may succeed, but most likely a wondering monster group or two, worth about 15% of their daily XP will find them during the long rest.
Another thing to consider is how long do you want your combat to last? I typically target a monster count equal to the number of characters +/- 2. I've found that having more NPCs for me to manage allows the players to check out of the game while I throw dice. I've also found that combats which last more than 1.5 hours of real time becomes a drain and the players are looking to move on in the story. Because of this, consider how much damage your characters are going to do. My PCs are doing between 25 and 45 points of damage per turn, paladin with no smites to barbarian respectively. I think it would be safe to assume an average of 30 to 35 points of damage per character per turn. If you assume each turn last 3 to 7 minutes then you should be able to determine how much real time you want to spend on any single combat encounter. To hit the 1.5 hour mark, a quick calc. indicates about 600 HP in the encounter. This agrees with the last encounter I had.
aco175
Legend
I would think about magic items that players have. If the players are making new characters at 10th level you can control items. I may limit weapons to +1 with another ability or maybe +2 basic, but most likely not. No magic armor is usually good as well.
Another thing to think about is player fun and not just taking away powers and spells. All the old 1e modules had no teleportation and scrying. Dungeons that took away things were not as much fun as the ones that let players use their characters power. I would have rather seen an enchantment on the dungeons that let monsters do 2x damage over taking away powers.
Also, do not be afraid to cheat and extend monster HP for another round or two. If the demon has not used its cool power, than it stays alive one more round to use it. Hoards of monsters become a problem I found. Any of the PCs can kill an orc or goblin in one blow or cantrip, but even at 10 per round they will be taking damage if there are 100 of them. I let the players roll attacks for the monsters when they have 4-5 creatures on them and roll damage as well to make things quicker.
Another thing to think about is player fun and not just taking away powers and spells. All the old 1e modules had no teleportation and scrying. Dungeons that took away things were not as much fun as the ones that let players use their characters power. I would have rather seen an enchantment on the dungeons that let monsters do 2x damage over taking away powers.
Also, do not be afraid to cheat and extend monster HP for another round or two. If the demon has not used its cool power, than it stays alive one more round to use it. Hoards of monsters become a problem I found. Any of the PCs can kill an orc or goblin in one blow or cantrip, but even at 10 per round they will be taking damage if there are 100 of them. I let the players roll attacks for the monsters when they have 4-5 creatures on them and roll damage as well to make things quicker.
OB1
Jedi Master
So I actually tie the multiplier to the ratio of monsters to PCs rather than the absolute number of monsters. This means that the adjust XP can be lower than the actual XP if the PCs outnumber the monsters.
1 Monster to 5 PCs - Divide XP of monster in half
5 Monsters to 5 PCs - Use actual XP of monsters
10 Monsters to 5 PCs - Multiply XP of monsters by 2
I've been doing it this way since around 4th level (on accident at first, it's how I thought it was supposed to work) and for my group it tends to be right on.
Also, don't be afraid to put out a monster who's CR is 150%-200% party level. An adult green dragon, for example is 150% CR of 10th level and worth 13,000 XP. Divide in half if it's all alone and that's 6,500 adjusted XP (by my calculation), putting it right between a Medium and Hard encounter if encountered alone. Add two CR5 air elementals, and now the adjusted XP is at 15,000, (20,000 total *.75 because party outnumbers monsters) just over deadly.
happyhermit
Adventurer
Lol, that will help them with the game they want to run. Just sit back and "expect more from designers" and the game will magically morph to their needs, much better than playing the game as intended and actually tailoring it to the table.
Were you running a published module? If so, did you make any adjustments to the published encounters?
Wiseblood
Adventurer
I DM almost exclusively. My 13th level party is a smaller version of yours. I don't often feel like I challenge them. They feel different than I do. I like to make encounters that I think they can and probably will lose. They pull it off anyway.
It might sound mean but as a player I would rather lose a hard fight than win easy ones. That said, I like when my creativity or cleverness makes a hard fight easier.
It might sound mean but as a player I would rather lose a hard fight than win easy ones. That said, I like when my creativity or cleverness makes a hard fight easier.
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
I would try to make encounters that don't rely as much on reducing an enemy force to 0 hitpoints. It's hard to come up with a specific example for what your group would like because I've seen a lot of variation in what different groups like.
I saw a really good example where a fight broke out in the middle of town, and another at the edge of town at the same time. Part of the PCs backstory was that they were the local Lords of this town and as such had responsibilities for it. The baddies were targeting townsfolk indiscriminately and were killing a lot of them including children. It was a hard hitting scene.
The players chose to split the party and try to stop the attack on both fronts, spending resources to both defend the townsfolk, and even revive them. I could easily see another party choosing to spend all their resources protecting themselves (or saving their resources and the bad guys weren't very tough) and staying together to beat one of the attacks and then go handle another. It's this kind of choice that makes the encounter good, in my opinion.
Anyway YMMV.
I saw a really good example where a fight broke out in the middle of town, and another at the edge of town at the same time. Part of the PCs backstory was that they were the local Lords of this town and as such had responsibilities for it. The baddies were targeting townsfolk indiscriminately and were killing a lot of them including children. It was a hard hitting scene.
The players chose to split the party and try to stop the attack on both fronts, spending resources to both defend the townsfolk, and even revive them. I could easily see another party choosing to spend all their resources protecting themselves (or saving their resources and the bad guys weren't very tough) and staying together to beat one of the attacks and then go handle another. It's this kind of choice that makes the encounter good, in my opinion.
Anyway YMMV.
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