Sample Character request: Warrior/Mage

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So for those lucky souls who received the books and have cracked the code on charcter building and multiclassing ... how would you now go about building the iconic warrior/mage in 4E, given the currently available core rules (ie, no house rules or "wait until the FR book comes out)? (Substitute Fighter/wizard, eldritch knight, spell sword, battlemancer, swordmage, mageblade, or whatever other term you prefer besides that g-word.)

For example, how would a fighter (multiclass wizard) compare to a wizard (multiclass fighter), to a ranger (multiclass wizard), to say a warlord with ritual casting .. etc.

Edit: For clarity, here's the concept definition that I think of when I thikn "warrior-mage":

[sblock]
A character who combines the skills and abilities of both warrior and mage, able to fill the iconic roles of each, albeit neither as good a warrior as a pure fighter, nor as good a mage as a pure wizard. Flexibility and utility are inherent to the concept.

Key abilities to me would be:

- Proficient with a number of weapons, including traditional warrior weapons such as swords, bows, or polearms
- Proficient in at least light-to-medium armor, and able to use a shield. Ideally, able to cast spells in armor
- Sufficient toughness to be able to enter melee, if not tough enough to be the party's sole melee combatant
- Access to a mix of physical and knowledge/arcane skill information
- Able to cast spells in combat that can aid in defense, attack a single target, or have area offensive effects
- Able to cast utility spells outside of combat that can assist the party
- Be able to demonstrate the flavor of the above from very early -- ideally first level. None of this "I'm an arcane warrior, but I'm still working on the arcane part" to suddenly "Hey look, spells!". This can't be a "build" that only works at 20th level ... the concept needs to be coherent for the majority of the character's career.[/sblock]

 

[Kzach]

Personally, I don't think multi-classing is really worth it. It's the one biggest flaw in the system, IMO.

You'd be better off scrapping the class rules altogether and allowing base classes at first level and cart-blanche power selection after that.

 

[Nifft]

Multi-classing allows you to pick up a few powers from the second class. The first feat gives you a class feature or At-Will power from another class as an Encounter power. Then there are three Power Trade feats which allow you to trade a known power from your class for a power from another class -- one for Encounter, one for Utility, one for Daily. So-called "Paragon Multi-Classing" allows you to trade out your Paragon path for some extra powers from your second class, and to trade one of your at-will powers for an at-will from the other class. (Warlocks are interesting for this path. Consider a Warlock + Paladin, since Paladins are the only class with at-will Cha vs. AC attack powers, and a Warlock with Wrath of the Gods is just plain sick.)

There are also some Paragon Paths which act a bit like multi-classing, such as the Wizard fo the Spiral Tower (aimed at Eladrin), which gains some attack powers.

Finally, you could take just the single multi-class feat and then go into a Paragon Path that belongs to your multi-class. So you could be a Staff Wizard with at least Str 13 who takes the Fighter multi-class feat and then goes into Kensei (and become a "staff saint"), which grants +1 to attacks with your chosen weapon at 11, and +4 to damage (!!!) at 16th.

You can pick up armor proficiency with feats, you just need Str and Con to qualify for the feats. There is no arcane spell failure.

An Infernal Warlock is focused only on Con and Int, and gains temporary hit points when he kills, so that's an easy option if you also want Strength.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Green Knight]

Awesome! Any chance you can widen the alignment field just a smidge, though, so that one could write out "Lawful Good" in there? Thanks.

 

[hong]

Awesome! Any chance you can widen the alignment field just a smidge, though, so that one could write out "Lawful Good" in there? Thanks.

When Tabbed Browsing Goes Bad: next on the RSS feed!

 

[Green Knight]

Damn it, Hong! Now I can't edit!

 

[Green Knight]

As for the Fighter/Wizard...

I'd probably go with Eladrin Fighter. Give him Arcane Initiate at 1st-level. Ritual Casting at 2nd-level. Eladrin Soldier at 4th-level. Novice Power at 6th-level. Acolyte Power at 8th-level. And Adept Power at 10th-level. And at 11th-level, go into Wizard of the Spiral Tower.

Or if you wanted more magic and less Fighter, then start as an Eladrin Wizard. Take Student of the Sword at 1st-level. Take Eladrin Soldier at 2nd-level. Take Novice Power at 4th-level. Take Expanded Spellbook at 6th-level. Take Acolyte Power at 8th-level. Take Adept Power at 10th-level. And once again, go for the Wizard of the Spiral Tower Paragon Path. At 11th-level get Armor Proficiency (Leather), and at 14th-level get Armor Proficiency (Hide). Maybe throw in Armor Specialization (Hide) afterwards.

 

[Sitara]

In other words:

1)Wizards lied when they said warrior-mages would be a viable concept. i could tell by their evasive squirming on the subject, but I held out hope. I like the fact that multi-classing is limited, but the warrior-mage concept is something that should have been designed intot he game from the ground up. It is such an important archtype. Even MMORPG'S have it.

2)Its shocking! that we STILL cannot get warrior-mages right after the enitre 3E fiasco regarding this. Even the temporary fixes in 3E (aka eldritch knight) were still subpar.

3) With the way arcane 'magic' is balanced against everything else, this would have been the best edition to write up a warrior-mage base class and have it balanced with everyone else.

4)We should not have to wait for FR when we get the sword-mage. Also, from what JI gather sword-mage wont be a warrior-mage in the classical sense (i.e. a someone who swings a big sword with one hand and shoots lightning out the other) SM will have teleportation and buffs mostly.

@OP: Sorry to sound grim, but I have to say if you want to play a warrior-mage in Dungeons and Dragons I say you play a game/campaign using AD&D 2E, which had the best iteration of fighter/mages of any edition of dnd. Just yoink the elven racial requirement, make sure you memorize mage armor and have it cast on yourself all the time (until you get a suit of elven chain and/or the stoneskin spell) and just go crazy. Yeah you will be a level or two behind other members of your party but thats a small price to pay.

If you are dead set on playing a WM in 4e, you could go with what the others have said, though keep in mind you will not be as good in one of the departments (fighter or wizard/warlock). IMO the best option for a fighter-mage in 4e at this point may very well be the Paladin class, what with the glowy sword and calling fire down fom heaven and all that. mayeb take the wizard, warlock or cleric training to get one of their ranged powers.

 

[Saeviomagy]

In other words:
..
..

It looks to me like you want a warrior-mage to be a full powered warrior plus a full powered mage. Do you honestly think that's a good idea?

If that's not what you want, could you explain what you do want?

 

[drothgery]

In other words:

1)Wizards lied when they said warrior-mages would be a viable concept. i could tell by their evasive squirming on the subject, but I held out hope. I like the fact that multi-classing is limited, but the warrior-mage concept is something that should have been designed intot he game from the ground up. It is such an important archtype. Even MMORPG'S have it.

But what is it? Is it a guy who's a warrior and knows a few offensive spells? Fighter or ranger or rogue w/ wizard or warlock multiclass feats works fine for that. Mostly an offensive caster who knows some weaponplay? Wizard or warlock with Fighter or ranger or rogue multiclass feats works fine for that. Mostly a buffer/utility caster? The melee cleric build and paladin work fine for that.

If you want the guy who can do everything, with a moderately armored type as a base, go cleric or warlord with wizard or warlock multiclass feats.

@OP: Sorry to sound grim, but I have to say if you want to play a warrior-mage in Dungeons and Dragons I say you play a game/campaign using AD&D 2E, which had the best iteration of fighter/mages of any edition of dnd. Just yoink the elven racial requirement, make sure you memorize mage armor and have it cast on yourself all the time (until you get a suit of elven chain and/or the stoneskin spell) and just go crazy. Yeah you will be a level or two behind other members of your party but thats a small price to pay.

Well, yes, 2e was the 'multiclassing is uber' edition.