D&D General Sandbox Campaigns should have a Default Action.

[Reynard]

One thing I am contemplating right now is a small, contained sandbox for a short campaign/long adventure. By some definitions, that isn't a sandbox because it is bounded both in space and time, but I think the definition still works at least well enough not to have to create a whole new term for it. In the precise example I am talking about I am thinking a barony suffering under the depredations of a dragon and the party comes in at the behest of the Baroness to kill it (the reward being the hoard). Everything else is up to them. they could conceivably just roll up on its lair but that would likely end in a TPK, so they can explore the area, talk to the people, delve the dungeons, etc... in hopes of finding tools that will help them kill it and take its stuff.

For those that care about strict definitions: is that still a sandbox? And does going in with a goal in mind count as a "railroad"?

 

[payn]

One thing I am contemplating right now is a small, contained sandbox for a short campaign/long adventure. By some definitions, that isn't a sandbox because it is bounded both in space and time, but I think the definition still works at least well enough not to have to create a whole new term for it. In the precise example I am talking about I am thinking a barony suffering under the depredations of a dragon and the party comes in at the behest of the Baroness to kill it (the reward being the hoard). Everything else is up to them. they could conceivably just roll up on its lair but that would likely end in a TPK, so they can explore the area, talk to the people, delve the dungeons, etc... in hopes of finding tools that will help them kill it and take its stuff.

For those that care about strict definitions: is that still a sandbox? And does going in with a goal in mind count as a "railroad"?

Sounds like a sandbox to me. There is an end goal and players are free to prepare for it and head in when they see fit.

 

[Scott Christian]

One thing I am contemplating right now is a small, contained sandbox for a short campaign/long adventure. By some definitions, that isn't a sandbox because it is bounded both in space and time, but I think the definition still works at least well enough not to have to create a whole new term for it. In the precise example I am talking about I am thinking a barony suffering under the depredations of a dragon and the party comes in at the behest of the Baroness to kill it (the reward being the hoard). Everything else is up to them. they could conceivably just roll up on its lair but that would likely end in a TPK, so they can explore the area, talk to the people, delve the dungeons, etc... in hopes of finding tools that will help them kill it and take its stuff.

For those that care about strict definitions: is that still a sandbox? And does going in with a goal in mind count as a "railroad"?

I can say as a player, I really enjoy overarching motives, especially if the smaller stuff gets tied in - even if it is just a little. For example, one of the dungeon delves results in ancient calligraphy that shows when the dragon was born, and some of the elves or dwarves have a memory before the dragon carried so much weight, and some ruins might have been destroyed by the dragon long ago, but are now encamped by giant spiders. The side quests don't have to be about the dragon, but they could have reminders. Maybe even clues on how to stop the beast?

I have no idea what to call it, but it seems like it will be a lot of fun for your players.

 

[Mannahnin]

Im totally good with linear as the good, and railroad as the bad. Most folks are actually.

I might suggest that "linear" is a value-neutral descriptor, "Railroad" is a negative term, indicating the DM actively blocking alternative player choices and solutions, and "sandbox" is a form of non-linear campaign structure in which players can choose their own directions and goals.

One thing I am contemplating right now is a small, contained sandbox for a short campaign/long adventure. By some definitions, that isn't a sandbox because it is bounded both in space and time, but I think the definition still works at least well enough not to have to create a whole new term for it. In the precise example I am talking about I am thinking a barony suffering under the depredations of a dragon and the party comes in at the behest of the Baroness to kill it (the reward being the hoard). Everything else is up to them. they could conceivably just roll up on its lair but that would likely end in a TPK, so they can explore the area, talk to the people, delve the dungeons, etc... in hopes of finding tools that will help them kill it and take its stuff.

For those that care about strict definitions: is that still a sandbox? And does going in with a goal in mind count as a "railroad"?

Good question. It sounds like it falls somewhere in the middle, as I guess a lot of adventures/campaigns do.

You've got a strong starting hook which it sounds like the players will need to be on board with- "You've been recruited by the Baroness to kill this dragon", but there's no required approach or forced timeframe. I think for it to be fully sandbox you'd present that as one option within the setting but not pre-define that they've already accepted this job. It'd be one option in the milieu.

(BTW I don't think being bounded in space negates a sandbox; I think most sandboxes have boundaries, though a DM who's really focused on player choice will usually be willing to expand those boundaries)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

so last night I had (more or less) scripted events happening... is that a railroad?

The City the PCs have been in was going to get a visit from a character I have foreshadowed... a dwarven artificer that is powerful and influenceable not in dwarven lands but human ones. I knew he was bringing a tank (a horseless carriage with a radiant gun on top), but the PCs had no way to know that before game. The PCs are aligned with and sometimes work for the local thieves guild... and the guy in charge there was pre scripted to want all the info he could on the tank. I knew when he saw it he was going to ask the PCs to get a look inside it and find out what they can. I also knew it was coming with a handful of guards and a weird human kid that travels with the dwarf... but also a Knight (a human knight serving a dwarven king) just happened upon this and is traveling now with them... this knight is a JERK. He is also WELL more powerful then the PCs... like if i simulate a combat I could see him if he gets lucky TPKing the party, and since they hang out in a gambling hall (that is a front for the thieves guild) I planed on having him come in, be a bit jerky to some NPCs gamble a bit, then call a local bard NPC out for cheating... I even took a song lyric as some pre written dialog when a town guard (or maybe a PC) tried to stop him from getting aggressive (You better check your ego, you don't want your lip to react, you don't want to see my hand where my hilt is at...)

I also had notes incase they went a few diffrent ways out of town even though last week we all said we were staying in town a bit... maybe they would only hear about all this when they got back?

knowing I had all of this planed, the Dwarf artificer the 13 year old girl(at least looks like) that travels with him, 1 of his 4 guards, the knight, the head of the theives guild, the local alchimist/apothacary, and the town mayor (that no one in game like) all have there own goals and I have an outline of what they will try to do for the 3 days the dwarf is there...

is that railroading?

 

[Reynard]

so last night I had (more or less) scripted events happening... is that a railroad?

The City the PCs have been in was going to get a visit from a character I have foreshadowed... a dwarven artificer that is powerful and influenceable not in dwarven lands but human ones. I knew he was bringing a tank (a horseless carriage with a radiant gun on top), but the PCs had no way to know that before game. The PCs are aligned with and sometimes work for the local thieves guild... and the guy in charge there was pre scripted to want all the info he could on the tank. I knew when he saw it he was going to ask the PCs to get a look inside it and find out what they can. I also knew it was coming with a handful of guards and a weird human kid that travels with the dwarf... but also a Knight (a human knight serving a dwarven king) just happened upon this and is traveling now with them... this knight is a JERK. He is also WELL more powerful then the PCs... like if i simulate a combat I could see him if he gets lucky TPKing the party, and since they hang out in a gambling hall (that is a front for the thieves guild) I planed on having him come in, be a bit jerky to some NPCs gamble a bit, then call a local bard NPC out for cheating... I even took a song lyric as some pre written dialog when a town guard (or maybe a PC) tried to stop him from getting aggressive (You better check your ego, you don't want your lip to react, you don't want to see my hand where my hilt is at...)

I also had notes incase they went a few diffrent ways out of town even though last week we all said we were staying in town a bit... maybe they would only hear about all this when they got back?

knowing I had all of this planed, the Dwarf artificer the 13 year old girl(at least looks like) that travels with him, 1 of his 4 guards, the knight, the head of the theives guild, the local alchimist/apothacary, and the town mayor (that no one in game like) all have there own goals and I have an outline of what they will try to do for the 3 days the dwarf is there...

is that railroading?

I don't know if it is railroading but it is definitely more "scripted" than I would generally do. The NPC wants a look inside the "tank" is all I would "script" beforehand. Everything else would be based on what the PCs did, the questions the players asked, and some random die rolls.

 

[jgsugden]

Not sure how I overlooked this thread until now, but:

My 'usual' campaign design is a railroad to level 5, then sandbox to ~level 17, then a railroad to completion of the campaign. When I do this, I've usually dropped about 20 adventure hooks into those first four levels, and implemented ways to remind the PCs of the hooks (both in, and out, of character). In one campaign I'm running for 6th level PCs, I have a running tally of adventure hooks that they could explore and it is at 45 right now. Some involve lengthy travel, others might be resolved with a single conversation.

When I start a true sandbox from level 1, which is rare, but something I would do for a West Marches situation, I'd just drop in a bunch of hooks into the Session 0 and then a few more into Session1, and then track the hooks on a communal message board.

 

[Mannahnin]

....
I also had notes incase they went a few diffrent ways out of town even though last week we all said we were staying in town a bit... maybe they would only hear about all this when they got back?

knowing I had all of this planed, the Dwarf artificer the 13 year old girl(at least looks like) that travels with him, 1 of his 4 guards, the knight, the head of the theives guild, the local alchimist/apothacary, and the town mayor (that no one in game like) all have there own goals and I have an outline of what they will try to do for the 3 days the dwarf is there...

is that railroading?

Not IMO. Having events which are going to happen in the game world is not the same as having events that must happen to the PCs no matter what they do, and which you have pre-determined how the PCs must react to or deal with.

Again, I agree with the Colville definition that it's not railroading in any way to present PCs with a situation. Or to have determined ahead of time how a given NPC will react to a given occurence. It's railroading when you force the PCs to deal with a situation the way you pre-planned, and unreasonably block any alternate solutions or actions they come up with and want to try.

 

[Mannahnin]

My 'usual' campaign design is a railroad to level 5, then sandbox to ~level 17, then a railroad to completion of the campaign. When I do this, I've usually dropped about 20 adventure hooks into those first four levels, and implemented ways to remind the PCs of the hooks (both in, and out, of character). In one campaign I'm running for 6th level PCs, I have a running tally of adventure hooks that they could explore and it is at 45 right now. Some involve lengthy travel, others might be resolved with a single conversation.

Is it really a Railroad, or is it what we've talked about in this thread as a Rollercoaster?

Do you give them a linear plot and then force them to solve it in a way you've pre-determined, even if they choose some other course of action?

 

[Reynard]

Not sure how I overlooked this thread until now, but:

My 'usual' campaign design is a railroad to level 5, then sandbox to ~level 17, then a railroad to completion of the campaign. When I do this, I've usually dropped about 20 adventure hooks into those first four levels, and implemented ways to remind the PCs of the hooks (both in, and out, of character). In one campaign I'm running for 6th level PCs, I have a running tally of adventure hooks that they could explore and it is at 45 right now. Some involve lengthy travel, others might be resolved with a single conversation.

When I start a true sandbox from level 1, which is rare, but something I would do for a West Marches situation, I'd just drop in a bunch of hooks into the Session 0 and then a few more into Session1, and then track the hooks on a communal message board.

Do you have that level 17+ "railroad" (read: rollercoaster) in mind at level 5?