D&D General Sandbox Campaigns should have a Default Action.

[Reynard]

Rollercoasters are linear. I don't think either does it, because the confines agreed to might not be linear. If say you agree to stay inside the confines of Adventure Land instead of all of Disneyland, that would be part of this sort of agreement, but it's not linear/railroad, because you can pick and choose which rides to go on and when within those confines.

A theme park isn't the same thing as a railroad or a traditional sandbox. It is a 'sandbox" that only reacts to the players (as opposed to existingregardlessofthem), like Rime of the Frostmaiden.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Arn't 'Adventure Paths' the way to refer to a pre set adventure nowadays?

 

[Scott Christian]

Welcome to reality. It doesn't work like that.

Well, in truth, we are not talking metaphysics or quantum theories here. We are talking about a game.

People can agree on what a cell is. That is pretty complex. They can agree on what a star is. That is incredibly complex. They can agree on what a plant is, what an animal is, a mammal, fish, rocks, soccer, baseball, basketball, swimming, polio, cancer, etc. All of these things are incredibly complex - yet there are agreed definitions.

I am neither discussing the reality that morality can be grey, nor am I discussing the reality of the complexity of interpersonal or intrapersonal relationships. I am discussing a game. So it shouldn't be that difficult to define, unless of course, it really doesn't exist.

 

[payn]

Arn't 'Adventure Paths' the way to refer to a pre set adventure nowadays?

Can be. Typically an adventure path is a campaign with a centered plot theme. Module is what Id call something that only lasts a few levels.

 

[Scott Christian]

most likely the way this would run at my game is we talk between the end of game 7 and in between game 7 and 8 and I am working 100% on the thieves guild... I draw up a map, or some stats (assuming I didn't have them already incase they did it game 6 when they took a different lead) my player then go off on some tangent... maybe they forget they are looking for her, maybe they decided to switch to giving the crazy kids a chance... or maybe they just get distracted because that one house has a red roof.

THAT is why I doubt anyone would describe my games as linar... because I can give some guesses but I never know for sure what is going to happen until we get to game. My hours of prep are all so I have things when they go left.

That is exactly how the last campaign I played in went. Let the DM know a future move, DM preps, and then see where it leads. That is also exactly how Saltmarsh ran when I was a player. The only difference is the DM stitched together using a greater amount from the books. That is also how I ran my last campaign, even though the story arc was sketched out with alternate endings.

 

[Scott Christian]

To that end: one mental exercise I enjoy going through and has relevance to sandbox design is imagining how the presence of a major monster (like a dragon) impacts the area. Not just the danger of the dragon itself, but how it changes politics, economics and society.

Oh, thats a good one. The answer changes big time depending on what system you are using.

It definitely depends on the dragon, right.
We had a copper dragon in our last campaign that was mischievous, and would intermingle with the politics, if only to watch them for entertainment.
As DM, I have three small kingdoms (small) that triangulate on a lake. They use the mountains to mine, the lake to fish, and the forest to craft. Their big three exports. (The lake is a headwater that drains to the ocean.) There is a dragon halting their trade across the lake, therefore, making them use the roads around the lake. It has created quite a bit of havoc; from sailors willing to risk it to haul iron across the lake, to bandits popping up on the roads that were once rarely used, to creatures coming down off the mountain to escape the dragon and interfering with the road.
Here is a map.

 

[Scott Christian]

Can they decide to leave that hub and all those paths behind to say go to Chult to dig in ruins for treasures of a lost civilization? If yes, then it sounds like a sandbox. If no, then it's not a sandbox. It's a box. A large box if it has that much in it, but a box none the less.

Just as an aside, I never really understood why sandbox games that are all about the freedom to go anywhere and do anything are called sandbox. Sandboxes are limited in size. You can't leave that square area of sand and still be in it.

Sorry if I was not clear. The players can choose to do what they want, including leave the story for a different story.

 

[Scott Christian]

A Railroad is when they are specifically forced to do something with no other options.

Sorry, and not sure I want to do this. But can you define "options" here?

 

[Scott Christian]

we may not be able to all agree on where the line is... how much A can be in B before it is more A than B... but we should at least at the extremes understand what a sandbox/liner/railroad is (yes there are more like hex crawl)

My contention is that they are all so similar, and once in play, there is no difference.

THAT SAID, I appreciate you and @Reynard and @Maxperson and others for having the discussion with me. It is appreciated, even if we don't agree. (And in truth, I still feel the sway of wanting to categorize that way. But when I look at the play, in game, there seems to be no difference. - to me. I get it though, I am outlier. But still, thanks for having the discussion.)

Now about that dragon...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Sorry, and not sure I want to do this. But can you define "options" here?

the strictness was the "you have to sign up for the kings contest of warriors"
the most lax was "please, I gave you 7 possible stores in the south east and west... please don't go north"

but somewhere between would be the guy who already know what the adventure will be, how it will begin and end, and nothing you do can change it... In my own past "You got told you had to get the 5 swords, but taking 3 or more weaken the seal and a bigger threat is freed... so no matter what happens you lose"

a more resent example is in curse of strahd... You enter brovirah in one place you have SOME sandbox to it (especially in the middle of it in the big city) but there is a lot of linear... and some of it is a bit on rails