Savage Worlds Rifts [OOC]
Yes. Always a solid game mechanic to base critical elements on entirely random things. (^_^)
Hehe, sorry. The snark is real. The system feels a little too dependent on bennies to me. It's like...when you have them, things are too easy. When you're out, or don't want to spend them, then it becomes incredibly hard to make headway.
Hehe, sorry. The snark is real. The system feels a little too dependent on bennies to me. It's like...when you have them, things are too easy. When you're out, or don't want to spend them, then it becomes incredibly hard to make headway.
I think it'd work fine if there was a system in place to allow damage to be dealt out reliably and soaked without requiring bennies...
And really, dealing damage isn't THAT bad. The only reason it's bad is because the unlimited exploding dice mean that the odds over time inevitably tilt towards the enemies...which means that a battle of attrition is always a bad idea for PC's. We HAVE to deal damage QUICKLY and overwhelmingly, in order to survive encounters.
If that wasn't the case; if we could more easily deal with incoming damage, then dealing huge damage immediately wouldn't be as big a priority and the attack mechanics would become more manageable as well.
As it is though, any attack that breaches Toughness is incredibly threatening. The Shaken condition is quite bad, and only characters who have invested in Spirit can reliably get out of it. Moreover, attacks that breach Toughness usually do so because of an explosion, which means they quite often inflict Wounds as well...and therein we enter a death spiral where damage taken reduces one's ability both to fight and withstand more damage.
I mean, I make it sound unplayable and it's obviously not. It's not a terrible, horrible, game-wrecking problem. But over time this is the pattern I've seen in the Savage Worlds games I've played. The characters who get through battles reliably either focus on incredibly overinflated Toughness scores that even crazy explosion have trouble piercing...or they focus on hilariously overpowered attack abilities that focus on multiattacking (usually with automatic weapons) to force Shaken/Wound results in a single attack action.
That feels to me like it's driven by the inherent swinginess of infinite dice explosions, and how an expendable (and in short supply) resource is absolutely required to mitigate damage results.
I mean you say you like character-driven luck...but that's not what bennies are. In the system as-is you CANNOT spend bennies, EVER, on anything but soaking (or huge alphastrikes that MUST succeed) or you're HOSED if a fight breaks out. Maybe in a combat-light setting or situation you can use bennies for something other than desperately keeping yourself alive (and really, even spending one, you only have a CHANCE at avoiding damage; it's not a sure thing), but in something like Rifts? Uh uh. So it's not luck. It is, as you say, hit points.
It'd be like playing D&D if the GM sometimes said, "Hey, you can change this situation by spending 50 of your 150 hit points to do so."
Then the PC might say, "Well, the cleric can heal me..."
To which Savage Worlds says, "Hahahaha...no."
Who's seriously going to take that offer?
(^_^)
And really, dealing damage isn't THAT bad. The only reason it's bad is because the unlimited exploding dice mean that the odds over time inevitably tilt towards the enemies...which means that a battle of attrition is always a bad idea for PC's. We HAVE to deal damage QUICKLY and overwhelmingly, in order to survive encounters.
If that wasn't the case; if we could more easily deal with incoming damage, then dealing huge damage immediately wouldn't be as big a priority and the attack mechanics would become more manageable as well.
As it is though, any attack that breaches Toughness is incredibly threatening. The Shaken condition is quite bad, and only characters who have invested in Spirit can reliably get out of it. Moreover, attacks that breach Toughness usually do so because of an explosion, which means they quite often inflict Wounds as well...and therein we enter a death spiral where damage taken reduces one's ability both to fight and withstand more damage.
I mean, I make it sound unplayable and it's obviously not. It's not a terrible, horrible, game-wrecking problem. But over time this is the pattern I've seen in the Savage Worlds games I've played. The characters who get through battles reliably either focus on incredibly overinflated Toughness scores that even crazy explosion have trouble piercing...or they focus on hilariously overpowered attack abilities that focus on multiattacking (usually with automatic weapons) to force Shaken/Wound results in a single attack action.
That feels to me like it's driven by the inherent swinginess of infinite dice explosions, and how an expendable (and in short supply) resource is absolutely required to mitigate damage results.
I mean you say you like character-driven luck...but that's not what bennies are. In the system as-is you CANNOT spend bennies, EVER, on anything but soaking (or huge alphastrikes that MUST succeed) or you're HOSED if a fight breaks out. Maybe in a combat-light setting or situation you can use bennies for something other than desperately keeping yourself alive (and really, even spending one, you only have a CHANCE at avoiding damage; it's not a sure thing), but in something like Rifts? Uh uh. So it's not luck. It is, as you say, hit points.
It'd be like playing D&D if the GM sometimes said, "Hey, you can change this situation by spending 50 of your 150 hit points to do so."
Then the PC might say, "Well, the cleric can heal me..."
To which Savage Worlds says, "Hahahaha...no."
Who's seriously going to take that offer?
(^_^)
Last edited:
Hmm, I have been in plenty of games where players burn through Bennies on rolls all the time, not just soaking. In fact in this game here you all might be a bit conservative (and that is cool) with your Bennies, because while I am not really tracking yours (I kind of am hoping the players are as I ask you all) but I bet unless something really bad happens at the end of this fight people will still have a lot of bennies left over.
It might be that in this particular game where damage can have a LOT of dice people are worried and don't want to waste them (saving them for Soaking). In my more standard fantasy face-to-face game that we have been playing a couple of years now (and all the players being Legendary help I know) they blow bennies on all kinds of things. Of course part of that reason is that I award XP on the number of bennies the players spend in a session
It might be that in this particular game where damage can have a LOT of dice people are worried and don't want to waste them (saving them for Soaking). In my more standard fantasy face-to-face game that we have been playing a couple of years now (and all the players being Legendary help I know) they blow bennies on all kinds of things. Of course part of that reason is that I award XP on the number of bennies the players spend in a session
Huh, well, we've had different experiences. My other big SW game is also science fiction. Usually bennies are spent to enhance attack rolls, or to soak. I don't think I've seen much bennie use for other things. Maybe once or twice on perception checks that seemed vital.
After a few combats, that 'extraneous' bennie use dwindled for most of us. The guy who has Toughness in the mid-20s still uses them sometimes for Power checks, I guess.
I keep track of my bennies. Deez has 1 left after using two on blown attack rolls. Hilariously, even then she still missed because I wasn't aware of the penalties to hit I was under.
So I'll be spending it to recover from Shaken, I guess. Then I'll need to spend an action to gobble up some PPE...
The sunlight gun is well and truly out of juice now. I'll have to recreate it to use it more. Those can't use my personal PPE.
After a few combats, that 'extraneous' bennie use dwindled for most of us. The guy who has Toughness in the mid-20s still uses them sometimes for Power checks, I guess.
I keep track of my bennies. Deez has 1 left after using two on blown attack rolls. Hilariously, even then she still missed because I wasn't aware of the penalties to hit I was under.
So I'll be spending it to recover from Shaken, I guess. Then I'll need to spend an action to gobble up some PPE...
The sunlight gun is well and truly out of juice now. I'll have to recreate it to use it more. Those can't use my personal PPE.
CharlotteOz
Explorer
Well, one impression I get with SW is that you can't really expect a campaign with no character deaths, and the randomness of exploding dice does play into it. Eventually a bad streak of luck may finally put you on the ropes - but if that happens, you can at least have the satisfaction of taking a few of them down with your dying breaths, since a major mechanic is "dying well." (I'm ready to Blaze of Glory it if I have to.)
There are systems out there where no one is in serious danger of dying, and I like those systems. But this is the other kind of system. I think it's a fit for Rifts which is a combination of many genres, but one thing those genres have in common is that oftentimes one of the heroes dies at the end. (People die constantly in war stories, cyberpunk stories and post-apocalyptic stories, for example.) So perhaps the better question to ask is not "how will I avoid death for the duration of the campaign" but rather, "what's a good death?" I'd sure like to have more than one adventure with Dawn, but: this'd be a good death for her.
There are systems out there where no one is in serious danger of dying, and I like those systems. But this is the other kind of system. I think it's a fit for Rifts which is a combination of many genres, but one thing those genres have in common is that oftentimes one of the heroes dies at the end. (People die constantly in war stories, cyberpunk stories and post-apocalyptic stories, for example.) So perhaps the better question to ask is not "how will I avoid death for the duration of the campaign" but rather, "what's a good death?" I'd sure like to have more than one adventure with Dawn, but: this'd be a good death for her.
I'd just like to get through one damn fight without worrying about it, is all.
But I s'pose I have backup concepts waiting in the wings. A mind melter would be fun.
So yeah.
I dunno. My frustration stems more from feeling impotent than it does from feeling vulnerable. But that feeling of impotence may just be dice angst masquerading as system angst.
But I s'pose I have backup concepts waiting in the wings. A mind melter would be fun.
So yeah.
I dunno. My frustration stems more from feeling impotent than it does from feeling vulnerable. But that feeling of impotence may just be dice angst masquerading as system angst.
