Scribing Scrolls

[Staffan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Scribing Scrolls

You don't have to be able to cast 50 magic missiles a day to craft a wand of MM.

Sure, but a wand is not a scroll. They're two completely different kinds of items. The wand is more akin to having packets of energy fired through a matrix that shapes that energy into a spell, whereas a scroll has separately scribed and prepared spells. In a way, the difference is like that between a sorcerer and a wizard.

There are many ways in which a wand and a scroll differ: requirements for usage (using a scroll of too high a level is an invitation to disaster), spell trigger vs. spell completion, flexibility (a wand has only one spell, whereas a scroll can have different ones), creation requirements (you need to be 5th level to create a wand, but only 1st to create a scroll), spell limitations (max 4th level in a wand, no limit on a scroll), and so on and so forth. I think it's safe to say that just because a wand doesn't require you to prepare 50 copies of the spell it doesn't mean that the scroll doesn't require a copy per instance either. Still, it *is* a matter of interpretation.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scribing Scrolls

"The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot
is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)"

Why are you quoting me? That's what I was talking about.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scribing Scrolls

The part about preparing all the required spells is "spelled" out ( ) in the rules, but the example of putting multiple copies of the same spell on a scroll is not quite the same thing.

Except that your analogy of wands and scrolls is flawed. They are completely different types of magic items. Heck, one is spell-trigger and the other is spell-completion. Not the same at all.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scribing Scrolls

Why are you quoting me? That's what I was talking about.

hehe i thought that you were somewhat talking about me when you said that some might disagree. I just wanted to tell you that i did agree.

When i quote someone, it doesnt automatically mean that i think what they said is wrong

Maitre D

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Scribing Scrolls

hehe i thought that you were somewhat talking about me when you said that some might disagree.

Nah. It was a general comment in regards to the last time this topic came up (recently, I think).

When i quote someone, it doesnt automatically mean that i think what they said is wrong

That's why I asked. I didn't want to assume anything. Figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and all that.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

oh, ok.

So when can we see the Native Outsider Broken ECL Thread?

Maitre D

 

[Antikinesis]

Staffan and Not-Sean:

Since your responses are quite similar, I'll address them together.

Yup, a wand is quite dissimilar from a scroll. I'll agree whole-heartedly.

However, I mentioned the wand as an example of a spell-storing magic item that specifically did not require the requisite spell to be separately prepared and triggered for each stored instance of the spell. I am unaware of a spell-storing item whose creation rules specifically require that the stored spells be prepared and triggered separately for multiple instances of the same spell, including scrolls.

And going to the SRD:

CREATING WANDS
. . . The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand’s creation. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the character’s currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

CREATING SCROLLS
. . . The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the character’s currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

So, while their use is quite dissimilar, their creation does have a little bit in common, especially regarding spell-preparation requirements.

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

So, while their use is quite dissimilar, their creation does have a little bit in common, especially regarding spell-preparation

They may have a little bit in common, but by far not enough. Here's the way I see it...

A wand is a charged item. Cast the spell once per day for each day you are working on it, and when all is said and done, you have a wand with 50 charges.

Scrolls are not charged items. They are single use items. Make a scroll and cast the spell. If you make two scrolls then you cast two spells, even if the spells on the two scrolls are the same.

 

[Antikinesis]

Scrolls are not charged items. They are single use items. Make a scroll and cast the spell. If you make two scrolls then you cast two spells, even if the spells on the two scrolls are the same.

(emphasis mine.)

Agreed. Where we differ is in the case of writing one scroll with two identical spells. Are you sure you're in Camp 1 ("A scroll with multiple spells is still a single magic item."), Not-Sean?

With the lack of rules to cover multiple-spell scrolls, we're forced to extrapolate the single-scroll-creation rules or the multiple-stored-spell-item-creation rules. I'll grant that your choice (single-item w/ respect to creation time, multi-item w/ respect to spell prep reqs) is a good compromise between the two, even though I think it's being a little more free with the rules interpretation. (Note: not a "house-rule" accusation.)

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

Agreed. Where we differ is in the case of writing one scroll with two identical spells. Are you sure you're in Camp 1 ("A scroll with multiple spells is still a single magic item."), Not-Sean?

I sure am, but a scroll simply isn't a charged item, thus I think you need to cast the spell each time you place it on the scroll.

With the lack of rules to cover multiple-spell scrolls, we're forced to extrapolate the single-scroll-creation rules or the multiple-stored-spell-item-creation rules. I'll grant that your choice (single-item w/ respect to creation time, multi-item w/ respect to spell prep reqs) is a good compromise between the two, even though I think it's being a little more free with the rules interpretation. (Note: not a "house-rule" accusation.)

Right, but I just don't see it as a compromise. They are two completely different types of magic items, and the rules of one type of item do not necessarily govern a completely different type of item.