Serious poll: introductory or full length adventures in campaign setting source book?

[howandwhy99]

If you're telling me that previous attempts to acheive a 'living setting' (something with a timeline) were failures (WoD, for instance, than I would gladly agree. That said, it doesn't mean it can't be done. Honestly, for me, a setting presented for a single point (which is fixed) is of no use to me; but neither are a timeline describing the events of the players (and you are right, this is boring). I strongly believe this hobby needs to come up with new avenues, new design to propose 'adventures modules'.

I've been advocating for modules (and settings) where the timeline of the world is generated forward. At least for everything and everyone not the PCs. Then the players play the game changing what they do as they move into those places and times.

But I agree adventures with plots for what the players aren't the only type our hobby needs. I believe this stems from Act-Scene thinking where momentous events occur regardless of the players actions.

 

[ExiStanc3]

I've been advocating for modules (and settings) where the timeline of the world is generated forward. At least for everything and everyone not the PCs. Then the players play the game changing what they do as they move into those places and times.

But I agree adventures with plots for what the players aren't the only type our hobby needs. I believe this stems from Act-Scene thinking where momentous events occur regardless of the players actions.

That's exactly what I have in mind. It seems I have made an [honest] mistake by resurrecting a long dead thread (I'm kind of new to this board).

So, I have split this thread into a new one to address this issue: Settings and adventures modules design: providing useful products. I hope we can share insights about solutions (there is more than one) there.

Note: strangely, and this is not specific to this board, the subject of plots and setting seems to be disregard. I can't explain why. But I do believe our hobby needs new types of products, and that those should help us to bring new players to the hobby.

 

[Serendipity]

If you're going to include an adventure, by all means do so - but make it a full length adventure. Not the beginning of a series of adventures (sold seperately) and not some brief little combat thing that I could whip up in five seconds on my own. Something solid and ideally showing how the setting is envisioned to work and interact.

 

[ExiStanc3]

If you're going to include an adventure, by all means do so - but make it a full length adventure. Not the beginning of a series of adventures (sold seperately) and not some brief little combat thing that I could whip up in five seconds on my own. Something solid and ideally showing how the setting is envisioned to work and interact.

Then I guess you might want to check Avalanche: it is a full adventure, an epic campaign. It is a setting designed for an adventure and an adventure designed for a setting at a given time, with some strong immediate stakes. And time does matter.

 

[gamerprinter]

Kind of ass-backwards to some, but in my development of the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG), at the start of that project, it wasn't known whether creating an entire setting first was the most economical or smart way to start. Creating a setting is fairly expensive, so only a setting that is known to be a seller, is worth spending money on. Also along with this discussion of decisions surrounding whether to include a full or partial adventure - this is what I did for our first Kaidan product: the Curse of the Golden Spear was an introductory mini-campaign arc, a trilogy of modules (5th, 6th and 7th level).

Since Kaidan is an analog fantasy, feudal Japan, and this was an introductory product, and there is some expectation that the majority of people are not playing oriental race/classes. So this adventure was designed in mind for outsiders (standard, Euro-based flavored PCs) visiting the far east. Many/most of the unique setting rules might be known to locals living in Kaidan, but since the adventure is designed as an introduction, the assumption is that the PCs have no hidden knowledge of Kaidan, therefore is best represented by outsiders not from Kaidan itself.

All the unique Kaidan setting rules were placed in the appendices at the end of each adventure. We included 3 unique Kaidan mechanics or aspects with each adventure, thus 3 items in each module appendix. This way we didn't have to create an entire setting guide before releasing an intro adventure. So these were 3 full adventures, as a complete 3 part mini-campaign, and all the major unique features of Kaidan are introduced in these modules - thus fully serving its purpose as an intro product.

Since that trilogy of modules, and subsequent creation of 4 one-shot modules, racial supplements and class faction books, Kaidan has built a solid fanbase, and only now (following a Kickstarter to support it 2 summers ago), we'll be shortly releasing the complete GM's guide to Kaidan, as well as a Player guide to the setting as well. More content and adventure material will be produced after the release of the setting guides.

This is the process at which we decided to release this line of setting material for Pathfinder.

 

[ExiStanc3]

All the unique Kaidan setting rules were placed in the appendices at the end of each adventure. We included 3 unique Kaidan mechanics or aspects with each adventure, thus 3 items in each module appendix. This way we didn't have to create an entire setting guide before releasing an intro adventure. So these were 3 full adventures, as a complete 3 part mini-campaign, and all the major unique features of Kaidan are introduced in these modules - thus fully serving its purpose as an intro product.

That's a very nice strategy; it reduces a lot of risks for the publisher. That said was not setting and mini adventures, but mini adventures to introduce the setting. Truly a 'built upon' strategy. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jhaelen]

I think a mini-adventure is a must for a core rules book. There has to be a way to start testing the rules with minimal effort.

For a campaign setting, though? Not really necessary. As others have mentioned, I'd much rather have plenty of story hooks distributed over the book.

And by all means don't include a full-length adventure in ether type of book!