Shadowfell Box set coming in 2011! (an other GenCon announcements)

[Imaro]

The problem is, experience has shown that there are a lot of players who will not roleplay (bold and italics aimed not at you, but said players who will not roleplay), if the rulebook doesn't tell them to roleplay and how to do it. It isn't that they don't know how to make the attempt, as I've seen them make the attempt in other systems that tell them to make the attempt and give them rules about it. Even the existence of rules that they think are "dumb, and easily exploitable" prompts them to roleplay "better than the rules", while the absence of rules makes them sit there like a bump on a log. Gamers are bizarre creatures and I pity whoever has to develop products for them.

I've literally heard players when they get called on randomly killing npcs because they looked at them wrong, justify it by saying "well, despite all your logical reasons why this would be a 'bad and insane thing', you have to accept that this is still D&D". Which to them was the most compelling argument in the world, and was convincing to half the table, while the other half of the table stood their with their mouths open in shock.

Especially because it has been my observation that these very same players will rake 4E over the coals for being a combat game that tells you how to play your character and won't let you have any originality.

I don't think they are admitting their design and direction of 4E was wrong. It was a perfect design for players who will think of their characters as a persona driven by their background and own internal reasoning. I think they are admitting that too many players can't handle being entrusted with doing the roleplaying aspect of the game for themselves.

So for those players that have difficulty conceptualizing the idea of saying "hey GM, my character is a blacksmith because it is part of my character's identity" and the GM saying "cool beans, when you want to do something blacksmithy, I'll give you a DC that takes that into account". They are apparently going to give material to guide their thought process. Which experience has shown me is actually needed for a lot of players.

Or perhaps because it is a roleplaying game... as opposed to a tactical combat skirmish game... some people would prefer that they had a mechanic(s) in place to enable them to achieve the results that they actually want from working certain things into their characters background, personality, etc. within the rules structure of the game.

Or Perhaps when sitting down at different tables with different DM's they don't necessarily want to have to first play mother-may-I to even have a "background" in the first place and then continuously have to negotiate or get approval for what it is this supposed background can or cannot allow the PC to do within the game.

As a DM I like having these types of mechanics because they allow me to create conflicts and challenges, within the mechanical framework of the game I am playing, that are catered to the aspects of a character that don't directly deal with combat in a fair (hopefully balanced), interesting and mechanically robust way...

No, wait a minute I must be wrong...you're right it's that a large fraction of uncreative players apparently need their thought processes guided as mentally they can't handle roleplaying... ...whatever.

Anyway, I for one applaud WotC for realizing that there was something tangible that many of their former and even current customers found lacking in much of 4e gameplay... I am happy they are changing the design and development to account for and correct this, as I wasn't a fan of the previous 4e direction or conceits. As far as whether it failed or not... no one but WotC knows that, though I don't think they would have changed anything if their current path had been doing perfectly from an economic stand point... but no one can know for sure.

 

[Aegeri]

Finally, something to look forward to after I get my Dark Sun books. The Shadowfell boxset is an ingenious idea. Make one for the Feywild and one for the Nine-Hells and I will love you eternally Wizards. Bladesinger sounds like it could end up being an "Essential" type version of the Swordmage. They are clearly not afraid to double up on class concepts if they give them mechanical differences (Fighter and Slayer) now.

I can now actually relax for once about the direction the game is going. It looks to be going in a very sensible direction.

 

[drothgery]

Finally, something to look forward to after I get my Dark Sun books. The Shadowfell boxset is an ingenious idea. Make one for the Feywild and one for the Nine-Hells and I will love you eternally Wizards. Bladesinger sounds like it could end up being an "Essential" type version of the Swordmage.

I'd bet on it being the 'striker' version of the Swordmage (more so than even an assault swordmage), and an Int primary/Dex or Cha secondary class. Which is kind of what a lot of people want from a magical swordsman, even if it doesn't sub well for a fighter (excluding Essentials Slayers).

 

[Jack99]

Anyway, I for one applaud WotC for realizing that there was something tangible that many of their former and even current customers found lacking in much of 4e gameplay... I am happy they are changing the design and development to account for and correct this, as I wasn't a fan of the previous 4e direction or conceits. As far as whether it failed or not... no one but WotC knows that, though I don't think they would have changed anything if their current path had been doing perfectly from an economic stand point... but no one can know for sure.

Well, just because things are good, or even great, doesn't mean things can't get better. 4e could be a smashing success for all we know. Maybe it has attracted a lot of new players. We do not know. But if that is the case, it would make sense for WotC to try to regain those that they lost in the switch.

I don't know if it will work or not - and tbh I don't care at all. What I do know and care about, is the fact that prior to these announcements, I had a hard time figuring out which kind of future D&D releases could peak my interest.

I must admit they surprised me - in a positive way.

 

[Stoat]

I don't like boxed sets. In my experience, they're a pain in the ass to store, and the boxes tend to fall apart with use. I like most of the content I'm hearing about, but I'm not happy that WotC is choosing to go back to boxed sets.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

Its info coming from GenCon... I am sure the bloggers will provide more info when they have the time.

Thanks to davethegame and newbiedm amongst others for providing a live feed from GenCon.

Starting with Essentials, magic items will be grouped into common, uncommon, and rares. Rare more powerful and cannot be created by ritual. Giving the power back to the DM. Most current items will fall into the uncommon category. Only common can be created by the players.

This simply, is awesome. Love it! They're continuing to fix the issues I have with 4e.

The Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond. Boxed set that includes poster maps.
Shadowfell includes a "despair deck." Cthulhu-esque insanities that the DM gives out that includes rp and rules.

Love it!

Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale. Box of monsters. Includes tokens, encounters, poster maps.

No Monster Manual 4, but two Monster Vaults with tokens!?!? Love it!

Conquest of Nerath strategy war game board game. 2-4 players fighting across the map of ruined Nerath. Plastic minis, with heroes and armies

Might be interesting, but chances are, there are so many other great board games out there, including Castle Ravenloft by this time, that I doubt I'll be getting it.

Player's Handbook: Champions of the Heroic Tier. Introduces themes for core D&D. New options, feats. Non-combat options like Blacksmith

This is very interesting, although not surprising given the Themes in Dark Sun. It was inevitable they'd be introduced for the main game. I'm liking the nod to the non-combat stuff, even though I don't think it's necessary. I always love options.

Neverwinter Campaign Guide for Forgotten Realms, including the new bladesinger class

I'm an Eberron guy, so FR doesn't pull me much.

Hero Builder's Handbook. Aimed at players who want to tinker and build something detailed with your character. Not in development yet

Intriguing, but without many details.

Madness of Gardmore Abbey - new superadventure box, includes deck of many things.

I guess they've decided that the appeal of 'boxed sets' is more likely to overcome their price point?

4th Quarter: Ravenloft Roleplaying Game. Play vampires, werewolves, as well as other standard classes.

And here is our 2011 Campaign Setting. Sorta.

Many people thought there wouldn't be a 2011 setting and for the most part they're right. I wonder what this means for the other settings?

All in all 'interesting' items but not much that really gets me massively excited. Mostly the new philosophy for magic items and more monsters is what I like.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

The DMG3 might come in 2012, but there are not enough groups playing in the epic tier yet. Instead epic tier support through the DDI.

Apparently they are trying to limit the use of stun and to a certain degree daze in their design.

This could be a chicken or the egg thing. Part of the reason I'm not running Epic is that I don't have a good feel how to. Which a DMG3 would help immensely with.

 

[giant.robot]

In defense of box sets, I was talking to the purveyor at my FLGS last night and he brought up a good point. The "feelies" in a box set aren't something that can be put up on DDI. As convenient as DDI can be it can completely cut the throat of FLGSes. A year subscription costs about as much as two splat books. So if you're not into collecting dead trees there's no reason to pick up those books and instead just read their content on DDI.

A box set tends to give gamers a little better return than just a paper splat book because they get minis/tokens, maps, a paperback splat book, and some dice and something to hold them all in. That's a nice package for $30. For something like say the new Monster Vaults it's a lot friendlier than saying "well pick up the $30 Monster Manual and then go find our Miniatures product and hope you get the minis you want for your campaign". This is especially true with 4E's reliance on grid-based combat. Maps and some sort of token on the map are really important and if you're not provided with tokens you have to figure something out.

 

[Jack99]

This could be a chicken or the egg thing. Part of the reason I'm not running Epic is that I don't have a good feel how to. Which a DMG3 would help immensely with.

I agree. Kinda an odd reasoning from WotC. I do not feel intimidated by playing epic (having tried it for a while), but I would pay good money for more help, as it certainly has some challenges - for me anyway.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

In defense of box sets, I was talking to the purveyor at my FLGS last night and he brought up a good point. The "feelies" in a box set aren't something that can be put up on DDI. As convenient as DDI can be it can completely cut the throat of FLGSes. A year subscription costs about as much as two splat books. So if you're not into collecting dead trees there's no reason to pick up those books and instead just read their content on DDI.

A box set tends to give gamers a little better return than just a paper splat book because they get minis/tokens, maps, a paperback splat book, and some dice and something to hold them all in. That's a nice package for $30. For something like say the new Monster Vaults it's a lot friendlier than saying "well pick up the $30 Monster Manual and then go find our Miniatures product and hope you get the minis you want for your campaign". This is especially true with 4E's reliance on grid-based combat. Maps and some sort of token on the map are really important and if you're not provided with tokens you have to figure something out.

There's just "something" about a boxed set too...I still have my Dawn of the Emperors, Hollow World and Wrath of the Immortals Boxed sets...love 'em.