Shield Push Question

[Krensus]

I think the way I'm going to play it is this:

1. Monster declares close blast 3 spell.
2. Monster defines area and declares targets.
3. Fighter interrupts by pushing.
4. Monster is allowed to attack targets that he has already designated as being within the original burst that are still within 3 squares of his new location.
It would look something like this. Original:

M=Monster
X=Figher
Y=Friend in blast
O=Target area
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|_|M|X|_|
|_|O|O|O|_|
|_|O|O|O|_|
|_|O|O|Y|_|

After Push:
|_|M|_|_|_|
|_|_|_|X|_|
|_|O|O|O|_|
|_|O|O|O|_|
|_|_|_|Y|_|

I guess the flavor explanation of this is that he got hit while his flames were flaring up and got knocked back before they could reach their normal distance. Any thoughts on this interpretation?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

My own take on it would be to slide the blast with the monster - so, it would place the blast in the same postion in relation to itself, it would just hit different squares as the monster moved.

So, the after push would look like this:

After Push:
|_|M|_|_|_|
|O|O|O|X|_|
|O|O|O|_|_|
|O|O|O|_|_|
|_|_|_|Y|_|

So, in this case it would hit nothing, but in other cases it might still hit some of your party, or even other monsters.

Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Accidentally posted twice... my appologies

 

[Rughat]

OK, new wrinkle. The Monster is using a blast power that affects "all creatures" in the area of effect, and the fighter is standing behind the monster.

M=Monster 
X=Figher 
Y=Friend in blast 
O=Target area  
|_|_|_|X|_| 
|_|_|M|_|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|Y|_|  
|_|_|_|_|_| 

After Push:  
|_|_|_|X|_| 
|_|_|_|_|_| 
|_|M|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|Y|_|

Does the monster get hit by his own burst?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, not the way I would do it, as it would end up like this after the push:

After Push:
|_|_|_|X|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|
|_|M|_|_|_|
|O|O|O|_|_|
|O|O|O|Y|_|
|O|O|O|_|_|

Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear

 

[Belares]

So with that said we would agree you would not get the Combat Challenge (with push) if it looked like this:

|_|_|M|_|_|
|_|O|O|X|_|
|_|O|O|O|_|
|_|O|O|Y|_|
|_|_|_|_|_|

Since the fighter IS part of the blast? Right.

 

[Belares]

OK, new wrinkle. The Monster is using a blast power that affects "all creatures" in the area of effect, and the fighter is standing behind the monster.

M=Monster 
X=Figher 
Y=Friend in blast 
O=Target area  
|_|_|_|X|_| 
|_|_|M|_|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|Y|_|  
|_|_|_|_|_| 

After Push:  
|_|_|_|X|_| 
|_|_|_|_|_| 
|_|M|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|O|_| 
|_|O|O|Y|_|

Does the monster get hit by his own burst?

I do not think that is the way it is supposed to be as i think the blast area moves with you. But that is the arguement here.

 

[Rughat]

I do not think that is the way it is supposed to be as i think the blast area moves with you. But that is the arguement here.

Right, but I think it is an important wrinkle to keep in mind in any ruling. If you state that the blast remains the same even after the monster moves (which I think DracoSuave and Krensus are ruling, though in different ways) then you also need to address if a monster can be pushed into their own blast. If, in contrast, you feel that a blast will either move with the monster or be invalidated if the monster moves, then this sub-question makes no difference.

 

[Belares]

Right, but I think it is an important wrinkle to keep in mind in any ruling. If you state that the blast remains the same even after the monster moves (which I think DracoSuave and Krensus are ruling, though in different ways) then you also need to address if a monster can be pushed into their own blast. If, in contrast, you feel that a blast will either move with the monster or be invalidated if the monster moves, then this sub-question makes no difference.

I agree exactly. That is my question on what to do and i am discussing with some of my players now. I am even thinking of making it a rule you CAN change your blast area as maybe a minor action if you have one left.

 

[Krensus]

Right, but I think it is an important wrinkle to keep in mind in any ruling. If you state that the blast remains the same even after the monster moves (which I think DracoSuave and Krensus are ruling, though in different ways) then you also need to address if a monster can be pushed into their own blast. If, in contrast, you feel that a blast will either move with the monster or be invalidated if the monster moves, then this sub-question makes no difference.

What I'm ruling is that the target's he's already chosen that he is range of still apply and that no new targets can be assigned, as he's moved past the "Choose Targets" step of Attacking. So even if he's moved into his area of effect, he didn't assign himself as a target when he had the chance and can't do so now.

I'm not ruling that he gets to redefine the area and targets, or that he preserved the shape of the blast he chose when initiating the attack, only that after he's been moved, the squares he's still in range of from his original action are targeted.