Shift grip as a free action?

[Hypersmurf]

I allow players to release their grip with one hand, or grab the weapon again, as a free action. Shifting hands, however, is not.

Right - shifting hands is two free actions

-Hyp.

 

[Khuxan]

Pick up something, pass it to your other hand and pass it back. Then stand up, walk 15 feet, and walk back. Don't you dare tell me that the first action took as long as the second

 

[RangerWickett]

Pick up something, pass it to your other hand and pass it back. Then stand up, walk 15 feet, and walk back. Don't you dare tell me that the first action took as long as the second

Oh I dare. In fact, it took longer . . . because I have no hands.

Think about that.

 

[Elemmakil]

Pick up a stick and swing it at someone. Actually, you should probably swing it at a tree, or some other inanimate object that you won't get in trouble for whacking.

Now walk 30 feet.

Did it take longer to take one swipe with a stick or walk 30 feet? In D&D, you can replace the swipe with 30 feet of movement, but not vice-versa.

The round structure is based more on balanced game mechanics than on reality. That's just one of those things that I've learned to deal with.

 

[Khuxan]

Pick up a stick and swing it at someone. Actually, you should probably swing it at a tree, or some other inanimate object that you won't get in trouble for whacking.

Now walk 30 feet.

Did it take longer to take one swipe with a stick or walk 30 feet? In D&D, you can replace the swipe with 30 feet of movement, but not vice-versa.

The round structure is based more on balanced game mechanics than on reality. That's just one of those things that I've learned to deal with.

I'm not sure if this has ever been spelt out in the rules, but I've always played it that "one attack" is in fact a series of cuts and parries. When you include waiting for a chance to strike, maneuvering into a favourable position and recovering from a blow, the "one attack" could very well take longer than walking 30 feet.

 

[Elemmakil]

It can certainly be explained that way, flavorfully. In 2E it was official: one attack represents about one minute of parrying and maneuvering. You can explain almost anything with this style of flavor text, though.

Well, when you transfer your weapon to your shield hand, you have to keep blocking and so on, and to look for a good opportunity to let your guard down slightly without being clobbered. That takes time.

When you move, you can't just turn and run. You would get yourself killed. It's a quick, strategic retreat, and once again you need to wait for a good opportunity to let your guard down slightly without being clobbered. That takes time.

My point (both in this post and the previous) is that actions are an abstraction of time, and to some degree you can do whatever is mechanically necessary in the name of balance, and flavor it appropriately. "It takes longer in real life" does not necessarily imply that "it takes a lesser action." There is some correlation, but it's not perfect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not sure if this has ever been spelt out in the rules...

It was in 3E, though I don't believe the same text made it through to 3.5:
An attack roll represents your attempts to strike your opponent, including feints and wild swings. It does not represent a single swing of the sword, for example. Rather, it simply indicates whether, over perhaps several attempts, you managed to connect solidly.

-Hyp.

 

[Kat']

IMG, going from a one-handed grip (be it just carrying a two-handed weapon, or wielding a selectable-grip weapon like a longsword) to a two-handed grip is the same kind of action as drawing a weapon.

Ever wielded a sword? Changing hands or shifting grip takes virtually no time. Nothing compared with drawing a weapon from its sheath and readying it.

And as somebody mentioned earlier, if you can open your spell pouch, look into it, scramble around a bit, curse because your cell phone, chewing gums and keys are on the top and blocking sight and you just dropped your lipstick, and pick out a component, all this as a free action, I don't see why holding/releasing a weapon's shaft should take longer.

 

[Elethiomel]

Ever wielded a sword? Changing hands or shifting grip takes virtually no time. Nothing compared with drawing a weapon from its sheath and readying it.

And as somebody mentioned earlier, if you can open your spell pouch, look into it, scramble around a bit, curse because your cell phone, chewing gums and keys are on the top and blocking sight and you just dropped your lipstick, and pick out a component, all this as a free action, I don't see why holding/releasing a weapon's shaft should take longer.

Fair enough. I'm not disagreeing with you in any way. But in my game, it's the same as drawing a weapon.

 

[irdeggman]

What's wrong with that? And I ask the question both in a mechanical sense and a flavorful sense. Why is it a problem of game balance if the cleric grabs his mace with his shield hand long enough to cast a spell? Why is it a problem of realism or flavor for someone to do that?

Here is the area it gets strange.

The wizard with a great sword.

He walks around with it "readied" - that is in 2 hands.

He shifts to "holding" it with one hand (and no longer threatens).

He casts a fireball.

He shifts it back to two hands and now threatens for the remaining round and can take AoO.

So for the exact moment he is casting his fireball he no longer threatens the squares around him, but for the entire time before and after that he does.

This one is definitely not a "flavor" concept.