D&D 1E Should 5e adopt 1e style arcane magic?

[P1NBACK]

Really? THIS is where you want to go? "All about combat, like 4e"? Come on. If you're going to start edition warring, at least stop lobbing softballs like this one.

Oh, gimme a break. 4E is a game about combat. Combat is fun in 4E... It's a robust skirmish game. Seriously. That's not edition warring. I never said 4E was a game. I said it was ABOUT something.

This is the equivalent to the "race card" here on ENWorld. If anyone has any opinions about 4E that YOU don't agree with, it's suddenly "edition warring". Sigh...

Translation: Classes in old school D&D were badly balanced, if balanced at all.

Yeah... I don't think the goal was "balance". And, I'd rather not have a D&D where each class was a carbon copied "balanced" version of each other. Why should they be?

This default position that "balance" is good is absurd.

So, now we're going to play mind reading games with the designers because you weren't very adept at learning the rules. If your combats were averaging over an hour after two years of play, that's on you, not the system.

Now, you're just being an ass.

I guess all the threads about reducing grind wasn't because of system. It was because all those people were doing it wrong and "not very adept". Gimme a break, dude.

Translation - the classes suck, but, because we play D&D as a character building exercise, it's okay that they suck. It's like eating your vegetables.

Translation: Anyone who doesn't play the way I play is just having badwrongfun. My way of playing is the one true way and anyone who says differently is just an child.

This "translation" method you're using is pretty pathetic, man. I like how you take what I said, put it through your little one-dimensional lens and spit out a bunch of garbage. Oh, look, I can do the same thing...

Translation: I suckorz at gaming unless I have powerz on my character sheet that tell me what to do each round because I can't imagine stuff for myself.

Not very friendly is it? How about we just keep it civil?

Actually, I never said anything about badwrongfun. Actually, I said...

And, that's fine. That can be fun.

Wow.

Umm, how would I possibly come to B/X or AD&D with a 4e playstyle when I started playing in 1980? But, yes, if I wanted to go back to doing my one thing a day and then going off and playing Xbox Live, then I could certainly go back to a 1st level Magic User in AD&D.

Then again, maybe there's a REASON that this got ejected even in 2e D&D with specialist wizards. Can't quite put my finger on the reason. It happened so long ago...

First of all, I never said this is the route 5E should take. So, quit putting words into my mouth. Seriously. You're being a douche.

I simply said that some people don't have issues with the AD&D MU and actually find the game fun despite one spell per day. For some, this is a feature or not a problem at all.

So, who's the "badwrongfun" guy? It's PERFECTLY acceptable for you to take a stance of badwrongfun, but when someone actually says, "Hey, wait second. This can be fun too." You have the audacity to declare edition warring and say that person is calling people out for badwrongfun?

Seriously, Hussar. You've crossed a line here. Not cool.

 

[billd91]

So, now we're going to play mind reading games with the designers because you weren't very adept at learning the rules. If your combats were averaging over an hour after two years of play, that's on you, not the system.

So how come this argument works for you with long grindy combats but we don't get to use it to say that 15 minute adventuring days is on you because you won't use the elements of the system that work against it?

 

[Hussar]

So how come this argument works for you with long grindy combats but we don't get to use it to say that 15 minute adventuring days is on you because you won't use the elements of the system that work against it?

UMmm, because I DID use the elements of the system that work against it?

If you go back to the 15 MAD threads, I repeatedly state that we got around it with healing wands and reserve feats. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE 15 MAD.

But, that of course, misses the point. It's the fact that we had to adopt a specific playstyle to make the system work that was the problem. That we could fix the problem was never the issue. Of course we can fix the problem. Everyone admits that you can fix the problem. Even people for whom the 15 MAD isn't really an issue admit that they fix the problem.

The issue was that the problem exists in the first place.

You know who bitches about 2 hour combats in 4e? People who don't play the game. Take a look at the 4e Forum. Go ahead, I'll wait... You know what you don't see? Threads bitching about combat grind. Looking at the first page of threads, I see one thread that talks about speeding up combat. Not exactly a clamour.

The issue has mostly been fixed. MM3, which came out just shy of TWO YEARS AGO resolved most of the problems.

But, here we are, two years later, with people still banging this drum looking for fixes.

 

[billd91]

The issue has mostly been fixed. MM3, which came out just shy of TWO YEARS AGO resolved most of the problems.

But, here we are, two years later, with people still banging this drum looking for fixes.

Well, people are still posting that they're halving monster hit points to avoid grind as of a thread from 1 week ago. So I'll take that claim of the issue being fixed with a pretty healthy dose of salt.

 

[Hussar]

Well, people are still posting that they're halving monster hit points to avoid grind as of a thread from 1 week ago. So I'll take that claim of the issue being fixed with a pretty healthy dose of salt.

Well, you can lead a horse to water...

I'd also point out that the issue is being fixed. Granted, they might not be finished, but, the issue is in the process of being fixed. The DDI has a monthly section updating earlier (MMI and II) monsters to the new standard and various other tweaks and changes are being offered pretty regularly.

Unlike the 15 MAD where I'm told to just suck it up, change my playstyle so that 3e works and that there really isn't any problem. Or that the problem lies with me, instead of the system. If I'd just start "playing smart" there wouldn't be any problem. Since other people don't have this problem, then obviously any problem must be my fault. And so on and so forth.

So, I'll ask you again, what fixes are forthcoming to resolve the 15 MAD in 3e?

 

[Steely_Dan]

...

 

[billd91]

So, I'll ask you again, what fixes are forthcoming to resolve the 15 MAD in 3e?

Since 3e is OGL, there are plenty of variations to adjust the game in many ways that I find satisfactory, and there will continue to be ones out there. When WOTC stops fixing 4e in favor of 5e, what have YOU got?

 

[Plane Sailing]

This last page looks like it was mostly edition wars, so I've closed the thread. I'll take a look and see if anyone seems to have been throwing the punches and have a word with them separately.