D&D 5E Should PHB +1 apply to spells?

[Rellott]

For what it's worth, Xanathar's is going to republish some material from earlier books. I'd bet money that includes the few spells that showed up in SCAG.

 

[James Gasik]

PHB +1 doesn't actually prevent power creep. After all, if a new book comes out that presents an overpowered option, it can still be used with PHB content. What it prevents is cross-pollination; if supplement A presents a race with a neat ability that has synergy with a subclass in supplement B, that is what PHB +1 is attempting to prevent.

For example, if the rule remains unmodified when Xanathar's comes out, new subclasses will be incompatible with, say, Volo's Guide races. If Xanathar's includes the long-awaited Ranger fixes, that means you can't play the corrected Ranger if you decide to play, say, a Firbolg.

Or if the Mystic class is finally presented in book form, sorry, only PHB races need apply. So I'm told that what's happening here is lowering the bar for new players...but what it's actually doing is harming people who actually want to purchase books (and supporting the game). If I pony up 50 bucks for a new book, it's incompatible with the last book I bought for 50 bucks.

Why would a company adopt a policy that discourages me from giving them my money?

Just my opinion, but it strikes me as counterproductive.

 

[gyor]

It's not a problem now with the two books. It probably won't be a problem in the fall with three books.
It's more of a problem when you have six or seven books. When you get the 3e situation where the cleric player pulls out book after book, looking through every spell to choose what they're memorising for the day.

The PHB + 1 rule would really be better for 3e/4e/PF. It's not *really* necessary at the moment for 5e. However, it's a good rule to have now, rather than one to try and force onto the fans in four or five years when there's far more books.

So make PHB +2 give people alittle flexiblity. Its weird that you can't make say a Aasmir Favoured Soul or Sun Soul, a Triton Tempest or Sea Sorceror, a Fire Genasi Phoenix Sorceror, and so on.

PHB +2 will not break the system, its needed because they point subclassses in one book and races in a seperate book.

 

[Li Shenron]

If there's something here that would actually wreck the balance of the game that I missed, please tell me. I still don't believe lifting PHB +1 from spells would be catastrophic, but I made this thread to start a discussion.

Short answer: YES, the PHB+1 rule should apply to everything with no exception.

Long answer: the rule is meant to prevent abuse, not to encourage creativity. The rule doesn't care if it prevents a completely legitimate and balanced character. It prefers to put a halt to any discussion of balance before it starts: use everything from 1 extra book and nobody can tell you 'no', but don't even try to sneak in something from a second extra book. It is not a rule for home gaming groups, where you can decide to engage in whatever long discussions on what is a fair or unfair character build, or at least you have the time to check anyone's cherrypicking for approval. It's a rule for organized play, where it's more important to avoid discussions and spare the DM from deciding what is in/out.

 

[gyor]

Short answer: YES, the PHB+1 rule should apply to everything with no exception.

Long answer: the rule is meant to prevent abuse, not to encourage creativity. The rule doesn't care if it prevents a completely legitimate and balanced character. It prefers to put a halt to any discussion of balance before it starts: use everything from 1 extra book and nobody can tell you 'no', but don't even try to sneak in something from a second extra book. It is not a rule for home gaming groups, where you can decide to engage in whatever long discussions on what is a fair or unfair character build, or at least you have the time to check anyone's cherrypicking for approval. It's a rule for organized play, where it's more important to avoid discussions and spare the DM from deciding what is in/out.

There minor exceptions to PHB +1.

If you find a spell on a scroll during an adventure you can use it even if its not in the PHB +1 that you choose.

You can choose backrounds from any source or make your own.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure, but the rules also don't suggest that non PHB books are okay, either.

For non AL play, the game assumes no feats, no multiclass, and just the PHB classes/races. Basically, [MENTION=45197]pming[/MENTION]'s game.

Any other method comes down to you as a DM exercising your god given right to allow whatever rules and books you choose. It's not standardized because... how could it be? Why? It's such a choice of personal preference.

AL had to make those decisions for you. It tried to strike a sort of compromising middle road.

Still doesn't change the fact that outside of AL a player might not even have heard of this rule.

And please don't tell me you need the rules to tell you it's okay for you to go out there and purchase, then use, extra splatbooks...

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[CapnZapp]

PHB +1 doesn't actually prevent power creep. After all, if a new book comes out that presents an overpowered option, it can still be used with PHB content. What it prevents is cross-pollination; if supplement A presents a race with a neat ability that has synergy with a subclass in supplement B, that is what PHB +1 is attempting to prevent.

For example, if the rule remains unmodified when Xanathar's comes out, new subclasses will be incompatible with, say, Volo's Guide races. If Xanathar's includes the long-awaited Ranger fixes, that means you can't play the corrected Ranger if you decide to play, say, a Firbolg.

Or if the Mystic class is finally presented in book form, sorry, only PHB races need apply. So I'm told that what's happening here is lowering the bar for new players...but what it's actually doing is harming people who actually want to purchase books (and supporting the game). If I pony up 50 bucks for a new book, it's incompatible with the last book I bought for 50 bucks.

Why would a company adopt a policy that discourages me from giving them my money?

Just my opinion, but it strikes me as counterproductive.

Again, since this thread is somehow not posted in the AL forum:

This is not a problem unless you make it one. Or play in the AL.

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[Herosmith14]

M


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[CapnZapp]

M


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Q

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[Herosmith14]

Q

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Yeah, sorry. The app controls are a little finicky, that happened when I was trying to scroll.


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