D&D 5E Should the next edition of D&D promote more equality?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I believe variant is talking in terms of the general public, not just the actual gamers.

 

[TanithT]

I believe variant is talking in terms of the general public, not just the actual gamers.

Irrelevant to the sales statistics, which are a very good demonstration of the fact that actively including gender, orientation and racial diversity does not hurt RPG sales. Quite the contrary. The folks who are suggesting that it does need to look at what the market is actually doing right now and where the dollars and demographics really are, because that's some pretty overwhelming evidence right there that it doesn't.

 

[GSHamster]

Irrelevant to the sales statistics, which are a very good demonstration of the fact that actively including gender, orientation and racial diversity does not hurt RPG sales. Quite the contrary. The folks who are suggesting that it does need to look at what the market is actually doing right now and where the dollars and demographics really are, because that's some pretty overwhelming evidence right there that it doesn't.

What overwhelming evidence? By all accounts, Pathfinder is less than half the 3E market.

The D&D market shrunk and then split in two. Saying that one leftover piece is slightly bigger than the other piece is meaningless.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Same thing for the same-sex couples portrayed in JC Penney ads and catalogs; aside from the one-million moms thing getting the vapours over it, nothing ever came of it: no massive boycott, no hemoraging funds, no run on the company in the stock markets.

That's actually not true at all. JC Penney is currently in free fall.

 

[CroBob]

Irrelevant to the sales statistics

So Wizards and Piazo have released their sales numbers to the general public after not doing so for years, such that we can actually make this claim to a reasonable extent? If we actually had sales figures, we could do this comparison. Sure. No problem. We don't. Acting like we have statistics we don't really have makes anything we say relating to them pretty unreliable.

 

[TanithT]

What overwhelming evidence? By all accounts, Pathfinder is less than half the 3E market.

The D&D market shrunk and then split in two. Saying that one leftover piece is slightly bigger than the other piece is meaningless.

If you want to argue the sales figures with the industry's trade publication, please feel free. What I'm saying is that a gaming company that actively promotes and includes all forms of diversity in their core material is clearly not seeing their sales suffer for it. And this despite D&D being the long established, well entrenched market dinosaur with the household word brand name. The industry is increasingly recognizing that Paizo is outperforming WotC in many ways.

Believe that or not as you see fit, but I think it's pretty clear that Paizo's actively inclusive policy is not hurting their sales any. They're doing *amazingly* well in sales for a company that doesn't have the decades of brand recognition that D&D does, and they're doing it with LGBT, racially diverse, and not conventionally attractive female iconics in their lineup.

 

[Sunseeker]

So Wizards and Piazo have released their sales numbers to the general public after not doing so for years, such that we can actually make this claim to a reasonable extent? If we actually had sales figures, we could do this comparison. Sure. No problem. We don't. Acting like we have statistics we don't really have makes anything we say relating to them pretty unreliable.

We could referece the act of doing so by other companies. It would lend credibility to the argument that displaying more diversity is beneficial to sales. It would only be a general argument in support of the idea, it wouldn't be a specific argument regarding the RPG market.

 

[CroBob]

We could referece the act of doing so by other companies. It would lend credibility to the argument that displaying more diversity is beneficial to sales. It would only be a general argument in support of the idea, it wouldn't be a specific argument regarding the RPG market.

It entirely removes the context of the sales war between the two, though. 4th edition, a streamlined, modern, reinvention of the classic, which many people had a knee-jerk reaction to, and Pathfinder, an unabashed clone with tweaks of 3.5 D&D. I really don't think the inclusion of diversity plays into this conflict to any significant degree. I could be wrong, but how would we determine what degree this mildly more diverse cast plays on something with so many other, obviously important, variables?

 

[TanithT]

I really don't think the inclusion of diversity plays into this conflict to any significant degree. I could be wrong, but how would we determine what degree this mildly more diverse cast plays on something with so many other, obviously important, variables?

Absolutely true. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that Paizo's rise in market share is a direct result of their being diverse and inclusive in their core material.

And hey, if you want to argue who actually outsells who, that's fine too. My point is this: Paizo's sales don't suck. They are doing really, really well in the industry. They are making bank. And they are doing it with LGBT, non white and non eye candy female iconics on their front line. Those are not points I think it is possible to argue with.

 

[GSHamster]

It entirely removes the context of the sales war between the two, though. 4th edition, a streamlined, modern, reinvention of the classic, which many people had a knee-jerk reaction to, and Pathfinder, an unabashed clone with tweaks of 3.5 D&D. I really don't think the inclusion of diversity plays into this conflict to any significant degree. I could be wrong, but how would we determine what degree this mildly more diverse cast plays on something with so many other, obviously important, variables?

Clearly, if a company adopts a pro-diversity strategy and has increased sales, it was because of the pro-diversity strategy. Conversely, if a company adopts a pro-diversity strategy and has decreased sales, it was because of other non-diversity related factors.

This clearly proves that a pro-diversity strategy increases sales.