Shouldn't Miracle have an XP component?

[EOL]

LOL

THE PHB IS NOT THE ONLY RULE BOOK, LAST TIME I CHECKED THE DMG was published by WOTC...

Page 227 TOME of LEADERSHIP AND INFLUENCE... WISH OR MIRACLE...

If that does not INFER that a Miracle can do what Wish can (WTH does it do?)

In order to STATE what a spell does and does not do you need to look at ALL PUBLISHED MATERIAL.

I think YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR FOOT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!!

Do you have any idea how big of a stretch this is?

The only thing that the rule you're quoting means it that with sufficient XP cost (which is built into the cost of the item) and sufficient gold a cleric can make a Tome of Leadership and Influence.

Nothing more.

That's it

That's what the designer intent was.

That's what a reasonable interpretation is.

That's what 99% of people on this board would say if you posted a poll on the subject.

That's what the rules say. Having Miracle as a requirement for a stat enhancing magic item is not a little bit of errata which should be tacked on the end of the spell description it is simply listing the spell requirements.

The fireball example that Axiomatic gave was right on target.

Oh, and next time don't yell....

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

From the SRD "Alternatively, the cleric can make a very powerful request. Casting such a miracle costs the cleric 5,000 XP because of the powerful divine energies involved. A request that is out of line with the deity’s (or alignment’s) nature is refused."

To me this implies I can ask for anything I want, including anything listed in the description of wish.

Interesting.

The PH version has the same language, but goes on to provide examples. The examples are clearly of a different nature than the Wish examples.

To me the D&D Miracle clearly can not increase abilities.

But SRD Miracle is certainly up for debate. With the SRD language only, I would tend to agree with you.

 

[skunian]

Even using the PHB, they are just examples, and not a definitive list. Ofcourse try getting your god to justify an ability increase. In either case like a few people have said, the 2 spells are definately different, and seem to work as is, IMHO.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

I agree.
It leaves it open to your DMs view.

But with the clear list there under Wish as a reference to compare to the list for Miracle, it leaves no doubt to me that the intent is that Wish can do more than Miracle.

But, yes, the two spells are different and both work fine as is.

 

[nwn_deadman]

You lack a clear path of logic man...

When the sword has the flames inbued with fireball that is the same thing as the tome being imbued with the miracle.

IF THEY DID NOT WANT ABILITY INCREASES TO BE ABLE TO BE HAD WITH MIRACLE THEN WHY THE HE?? DID THEY PUT THAT IN THE DMG???

If you can point out a clearer path to the INTENT then by all means let me know...

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

You lack a clear path of logic man...

When the sword has the flames inbued with fireball that is the same thing as the tome being imbued with the miracle.

IF THEY DID NOT WANT ABILITY INCREASES TO BE ABLE TO BE HAD WITH MIRACLE THEN WHY THE HE?? DID THEY PUT THAT IN THE DMG???

If you can point out a clearer path to the INTENT then by all means let me know...

So you do think that a fireball spell can be used during combat to make a flaming sword?

Thanks, I needed some entertainment this morning.

 

[nwn_deadman]

I figured thats what it must be... education is entertaining to ya huh?

You are missing the point, I tried to spell it out in big bold letters...

There is a difference in what you are saying...

Fireball creates fire in the sword does it not?

Miracle creates the ability increase in the tome does it not?

Fireball creates fire when cast as a spell does it not?

Miracle creates the ability increase when cast does it not?

I cant put it any simpler, if you cannot see that go watch some cartoons...

 

[Zhure]

Just looking at Craft Magic Arms & Armor.

It takes...
... Continual Flame for Sun Blade
... Bless for Banded Mail of Luck
... Blur for a Sword of Subtlety
... Bull's Strength for a Shield of Bashing
... Call Lightning or Lightning Bolt for a Shock weapon
...Clairaudience/Clairvoyance for a Distance weapon
... Contagion for Demon Armor
... Continual Flame and Gaseous Form for a Brilliant Energy weapon
... Detect Magic for a Trident of Warning
... Divine Power for a Mighty Cleaving weapon
... Flame Blade or Flame Strike for a Flaming weapon
... Harm for a Rapier of Puncturing
... Ice Storm and Dispel Magic for a Frost Brand
... Magic Missile for a Spined Shield
... Magic Stone for a Throwing weapon
... Mass Charm for a Breastplate of Command
... Mordenkainen's Sword for a weapon of Wounding
... Plane Shift for a Ghost Touch weapon
... Scare for a Screaming Bolt
... Shield or Shield of Faith for a Defending weapon
... Summon Nature's Ally IV for a Lion's Shield

While these spells are generally related to the effect on the weapon or armor, there isn't a one-to-one correspondance. A caster can't use SUmmon Nature's Ally IV to call up a Lion shield, or create a lion shield effect.

Consequently, just because you've got Miracle, doesn't mean it can emulate all the things listed for Miracle in the magic items section.

Hope that helps,
Greg

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Actually, I do enjoy education, but that is not what this is.
This is more like watching the Keystone cops.

It is clear you have zero clue about magic item creation.

Making a flaming sword is not one of the abilities of the fireball spell. But the spell does qualify as a prerequisite for the magic item. Please show me a rule that states that a spell can do anything that an item using that spell as a prereq can do. You can not do that because the rule does not exist.

The DMG does not anywhere state that Miracle can give a bonus to abilties.

But thanks for the laugh. To bad, like most jokes, it was only funny the first time.

 

[nwn_deadman]

I see that many spells listed as a pre-req do not allow the same thing to be done when casting the spell.

BUT, Miracle says that you can ask for powerfull things to be done.

It does not say that you can, it does not say that you can't.

I am going by the logic, that if a magic item can grant an ability increase with Miracle then Miracle can do it as a spell.

You also have to look at ALL of the spells you mentioned, NONE of them have the open-ended type of results that Miracle has do they?