Siege Crab at CR9

[Old_school_overlord]

I need to make a toned down Siege Crab, that can be a suitable threat for my six strong party of level 7 characters (unoptimised, with weak ranged capability, no arcane casters) does this look reasonably balanced?

The original is from MMIII

Huge Vermin
hit dice 16d8 + 64
initiative -2
speed: 40ft, swim 40ft
armour class: 27
Base Attack/grapple: +12/+28
attack: claw +20, 2d6+8
full attack: 2 claws +20, 2d6+8
space/reach: 15ft/10ft
special attack: trample 2d6+12
special qualities: amphibious, DR 5/adamantine, darkvision 60ft, force carapace +2, shielded compartment (2 medium creatures), vermin traits
Saves: fort +16, Ref+5, Will +7
abilities: str 26, dex 6, con 18, int -, wis 10, cha 2
skills: swim +27
feats: power attack, cleave

 

[Infiniti2000]

Is it suitable to the story line for the siege crab to be damaged? That's one of my favorite ploys in order to use a more powerful creature for a lower level party. Even if the players recognize what they encounter, it'll be obvious the creature is hurt, perhaps badly (including, say, poison, etc. to lower stats so it's less dangerous), and they may realize they have a chance. It also really helps with a little bit of verisimilitude knowing that not every creature they encounter will be fully healthy -- because the PCs are not always fully healthy either.

Other than that, I think that what you have is a little strong. I'd expect potentially one death, particularly if there's a Small creature in the group (I think I remember the limit of the improved grab for the crab is 3 size smaller). If the siege crab is carrying some full-health bad guys of CR 7 or so as well, then this could become a TPK fairly easily. It might be a decent major climactic battle, however, if done right.

 

[Old_school_overlord]

Well, I've just come out of 2 years of GMing Coc, with all flesh must be eaten, paranoia and hackmaster before that - I think my players are pretty sick of invincible plot monsters by now!

I intend for them to see it first during a sahaugin raid on a coastal town, so less than a full confrontation as they can drive off the raid by killing enough soldiers, taking down the crab or focus on defence/evacuation of townsfolk.

 

[eamon]

Well, I've just come out of 2 years of GMing Coc, with all flesh must be eaten, paranoia and hackmaster before that - I think my players are pretty sick of invincible plot monsters by now!

I intend for them to see it first during a sahaugin raid on a coastal town, so less than a full confrontation as they can drive off the raid by killing enough soldiers, taking down the crab or focus on defence/evacuation of townsfolk.

Your monster is too powerful. AC 27 is just too high, and two +20 attacks is very strong, and +28 grapple is pretty hefty.

Look at other CR9 huge creatures to compare:
A dire shark has AC 17, one +18 attack and improved grab (+27 grapple).
A delver has AC 24, two +17 attacks, and some other special abilities but doesn't grapple.
A dragon tutle has AC 25, on +18 attack and two +13, but only 138 hitpoints, no grapple, and a pretty nice breath weapon (12d6 fire)
A Young Adult Black Dragon (only Large) has a +19 attack, AC 24, the usual dragon benefits (10d4 acid breath, and 150ft fly speed esp.) but no powerful grapple
A greater Water Elemental has AC 22, two +21 attacks, and a bucketload of hitpoints, and a few special abilities.

Looking at those examples, I'd say lower the AC to 22, and it's still not weak.

 

[Old_school_overlord]

I quite agree with you on the Grapple eamon, whilst the original has improved grab and a constrict ability, I've ditched both of these from this cut down version, so I don't anticipate using it to grapple anyone unless they're a capture target for the crab's master.

(I also have a house rule that reduces size bonuses for grapple/trip etc to +2, instead of +4
so the crab is merely +24....still ridiculous! )

Probably worth mentioning at the moment they don't have access to an adamantine weapon, and i have no reason to expect them to get one...

I'll take down the AC and look at trimming a couple of hitdice I think

 

[wolff96]

I intend for them to see it first during a sahaugin raid on a coastal town, so less than a full confrontation as they can drive off the raid by killing enough soldiers, taking down the crab or focus on defence/evacuation of townsfolk.

Has this town ever been raided by Sahaugin before? Or have a little time to prepare before the fight?

If so, having a ballista or two that can be pointed at the water is perfectly reasonable. Or at least on turntables that can rotated in that direction. Possibly on ships in the harbor, if they have vessels larger than fishing boats.

That lets you do a couple of things:
1) Prove that the villagers aren't idiots.
2) Distract the crab, so it doesn't go right for the PCs, giving them time to figure out what they want to do.
3) If they attack the crab, it's been hit a few times by ballista shots.

That way, they can choose to evacuate the town, slaughter soldiers or fight the big menace directly. In addition, if things are looking particularly grim for the party because they went against the crab, you can have any surviving ballista shoot at it during the fight with the party.

 

[Quartz]

Two things come to mind: firstly, physically weaken it by removing one claw (lost in battle) and reducing its movement; second, if there's plenty of oil around, they could ram it with a waggon of barrels of burning oil. Especially if they can tempt it into a somewhere where it cannot manoeuver. Some creatures are not supposed to be engaged toe to toe. Players must think.

 

[Jhaelen]

Aren't there stats for different-sized giant crabs in Stormwrack? Maybe one of those will work...