Skill Levels - Too High or Am I High Handed?

[Thornir Alekeg]

I don't see any problem with it since you approved the method of generation, and like so many have said, the character is balanced. The only thing I might do is make sure the player understands fully the weakness the character has, and be sure that the player is really willing to play the character with that weakness. What I mean by that is the player will not attempt to veto any plot hook that might not play to the character's strength. Slightly different, but years ago I GMed a MechWarrior campaign. When one of the players saw how deadly the action could be when using personal weapons, he refused to leave his Mech - EVER! No point to him even playing at that point. If this player refuses to leave the comfort of social-based adventures this player may ruin the game for everyone else.

Of course if the character does go into a more combat-oriented adventure, she might find herself always having to have her butt saved and soon find the rest of the party chooses to leave her behind...

 

[takyris]

She's a Courtier, a UA Expert, and normal D&D classes? I hope she doesn't add levels in d20 Modern's Charismatic Hero next level.

Yeah, the Expert is not really for use in games when you're multiclassing into other stuff. That's kind of a break.

As far as the other stuff goes, though, just remember that Diplomacy only does so much. Turning somebody Friendly with an easy Diplomacy check can simply result in them thinking of her as a precocious child. It won't alter alignment, allegiance, or fundamental goals, and it probably won't overcome certain prejudices.

The best solution isn't to power up the bad guys. It's to alter circumstances so that checks are harder, when such is merited, and to allow her to succeed without breaking the game.

And "I allowed this on a trial basis, but it's proven unbalanced, so I'm taking it out now" is perfectly valid.

Most of all, remember that it's all about party balance. If this is all she does, and she's good at it, yay. When zombies and constructs have the party surrounded, she's not exactly going to be in happy-land. And if enemy courtiers get regularly trounced by her, they're going to learn that she is not capable of being defeated on the dance floor -- and that, as a result, the best way to deal with the spoiled young lady is to have some strong young men throw a sack over her head and beat her unconscious with clubs. Nothing in her class makeup does much to protect her from that.

 

[Terraism]

The courtier is not core, and you're allowed, as DM, to ban anything non-core from your game without being a control-freak. (You can ban core stuff too, but you better have a good explanation )

No argument there, but when the DM okays something, it always stings as a player to have him say "sorry, I take it back." Especially if you don't see it as being overly powerful. I'm not saying it's not a viable solution - it could be - but I can understand why the player's less than pleased with the idea.

 

[Squire James]

Has this character actually disrupted anything, or are you just afraid he might? If the latter, I would wait until he DOES steal everyone's thunder... then you'll have the rest of the players on your side when you act. One good "Game over for tonight, he just bypassed the whole adventure and I don't want to rush ahead without more prep" may well do the trick!

 

[LostSoul]

Maybe you could play to the strengths of the character instead of worrying about her skills. Write your adventures so that she needs to succeed on some difficult social skill checks in order to have the adventure continue along. And use the character and her actions as fodder for future plots. Make sure that you remember everything she does - maybe write down when & with whom she makes her checks - and use her actions as a guideline to NPC behaviour behind the scenes.

Maybe she starts a war without realizing it (Helen of Troy syndrome). Or starts a breakdown in the church's hierarchy or some kind of revolution because of something she once said.

So use her abilities as a DM tool.

 

[Terwox]

Did the rest of the party generate core?

Do the rest of the players care if the person plays this character, and got to get a crazy first start?

I imagine if you make them re-generate as core, you'll probably just end up with somebody who creates a combat monster who will unbalance things that way, or you'll end up with a character designed to throw a wrench into things.

I assume. It just sounds like a problem player, honestly.

But! I like to jump to conclusions.

Neat idea on the six levels of npc classes... I wonder how that works out.

 

[Enkhidu]

I only count one level of an NPC class in there - the Warrior (unless that is also fromUA, in which case I see no NPC class levesl). The UA Expert is really more customizable PC class, and the Courtier from OA if pretty defintely in the same PC class catagory.

How many NPC class levels were you having your PC's take?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Frankly I think this is a lesson to you. Put simply "if you don't know what impact things will have on your campaign, don't allow them". The additional one is "if a character looks odd to you, ask the player why it is built how it is built".

 

[Zaarastara]

"How many NPC class levels were you having your PC's take?"


Just one level of NPC class. Each player started with a single level of NPC class and added their first level PC class to that.

No, no one complained about the PCs apparent power in social situations. It just seems exceptionally high and the game has a lot of social roleplaying situations—around 30% of the adventures are social based.

After a discussion over the phone the player has agreed that he stretched the limits of social mining and maxing. I suggested removing the Courtier Class and replacing it with another class, perhaps the Aristocrat NPC class, but he would prefer to play a character that has more potential.

Now we are going for a mystic cult priestess who eventually wants to add levels of Sacred Prostitute from BoEF. I am monitoring character creation very closely.

 

[BSF]

Using Core PC Classes, these skills are attainable at this level. So, you are overly worried about just the skill bonuses.

However, this has definitely made you go back and start looking at class synergies. I would not suggest mixing and matching generic classes with core classes. Use one or the other, but don't mix and match. The generic classes allow a lot of flexibility and are designed so you can build the character you want. But, that is just my opinion. If you see other possible issues with class synergies, you need to find a way to resolve it.

It is interesting that the player is resisting a core class build. Why is there resistance? Did the player suggest these classes and ask to use them? What exactly is the player aiming for? Is it a character concept that will be interesting and fun around the table? If so, let it slide. If not, then you might need to reset some expectations.

Speaking of expectations, also be sure the player understands the limits of social skills. As has been mentioned above, Diplomacy is not the same as Charm. You are dealing with rational people and a Diplomacy check won't magically fix things. Now, if you are going for the diplomat approach, then this character is great. If you are going for a conwoman/scoundrel, this will be pretty good too. But, if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you aren't going to walk away free just because you have a great diplomacy.