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Small Press author in litte shamed letters apologizes

damiynn

First Post
The website Prologues

Obviously just a prologue on a website may not be indicative of the actual book, and it wasn't enough to get a good sense of your ideas, characters and overall story, but it was enough to make me wary of reading further. Sorry.


The webiste prologues were done up way before the book came out I am having them changed right now as we speak to the correct posts please bear with me I wasnt expecting so many repsonses

Another part to remember about both prologues is that they are set twenty years before the actual true story takes place. I made sure that a small portion of the first chapers of each is being placed on the website right now as we speak
 
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Sir Brennen

Legend
As an English [Creative Writing] major (long ago and far away), I have to agree with Thornir - even such simple things as lack of apostrophes on possessive nouns can be very distracting.

Also, if this is a sample of the novel, the pacing has me a little concerned as a prospective reader. It reads more like a movie script - sparse statement of action and dialogue - more than a written story. You can slow down and spend three or four sentences on each character in the room (and the room itself!) for the opening scene. Really. Your readers will wait for you. In fact, it will help establish the scene and characters more firmly in their minds, and hopefully make them care, or at least be interested in, what happens to your characters as they face the events and action you describe. Oh, and shorter sentences once in a while are okay, too. ;)

As it stands, though... I wasn't really hooked by the prologue(s?) presented. But then, I'm really not that big a reader of Sword and Sorcery fiction, unless it's really got something different to offer. (Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series, or China Mieville's New Crobuzon trilogy probably best exemplifying old school and new school, respectively, 'New Wave fantasy' of the sort I find more enjoyable.)

I believe every book has a target audience, though. Best of luck in finding yours.

edit: just saw your reply to Thornir. Let us know when you've updated and we'll give it another gander.
 


damiynn

First Post
New Corrections

The webiste prologues were done up way before the book came out I am having them changed right now as we speak to the correct posts please bear with me I wasnt expecting so many repsonses

Another part to remember about both prologues is that they are set twenty years before the actual true story takes place. I made sure that a small portion of the first chapers of each is being placed on the website right now as we speak

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are reasons why you should keep on your webmasters ass The webpage adn its prologues have now been updated
 


takyris

First Post
A few quick thoughts:

- I liked the idea of the introduction. Having a royal assassination take place on the night of the heirs' birth is a nice touch.
- I thought that your use of tension was excellent, and it created a nice emotional scene.

That said, I would not have kept reading, for the following reasons:

- Grammar. I'm not going to get tied up over an individual typo or screwup here and there, but there were enough grammar problems that the text was genuinely hard to read. The errors included dependent clauses that needed commas but didn't have them, run-on sentences, and clauses separated from the object they are modifying by enough distance to make understanding the text problematic. This needs a strong copyedit.
- Style. Another critique said that your novel felt padded, and I agree with that. For example:

"To him the birthing of the twins seemed to be taking a lot longer than what he thought was necessary."

If it "seems" to be taking longer than what "he thought" was necessary, then it is automatically something that applies only "to him". You could have used just one of these phrases.

"Now it sounded like the rest of the royal palace outside of the birthing room was being attacked."

If an explosion has just rocked the building, we can understand that it's being attacked. We don't need to have this explained to us this explicitly.

"The tall stern faced Krannion knight commander and champion of the royal family, moved towards the door and slowly opened it, his hand tight on his proctors’ sword hilt."

Aside from the grammatical errors here, there's too much information. I don't know what a Krannion person is, but trying to absorb the fact that he's that, and also tall, and stern-faced, is too much for just one line. Then you add that he's also the knight commander and champion of the royal army. Then, when you actually get to the action, you explain it in too much detail. Noting that he moved to the door might not be necessary. Noting that he opened it slowly might not be necessary. Noting that his hand was on his sword might not be necessary. I can see using one or two of these notes, but you're trying to pack too much into the sentence, and as a result, the sentence loses a lot of the power it might have had. Most of the time I've seen this, it comes as a result of the author not trusting the reader. If you tell me that "The king's champion eased the door open, his sword ready," I understand that he's someone important, and that he's moving slowly and cautiously, and that he's probably got his weapon held tightly.

"The ringing sounds of swords on swords and metal on metal signified a battle being fought outside. The sounds of it filled the birthing chamber. "

You didn't really need to mention the swords here. I liked the ring of metal on metal. You also didn't need to mention that it signified a battle being fought outside, as the reader probably gets that. You could simply have gone with, "The ring of metal on metal (or steel on steel, or whatever) filled the birthing chamber."

There are further instances of this sort of thing (the villain's line was similar, in that I thought you took a cool moment of betrayal and overexplained it, possibly afraid that we wouldn't understand that this guy was turning on his brother), but you get the idea. It's great that you have such detailed pictures of what's occurring -- in fact, I think that's one of the only ways that good text can happen. But I think what's breaking down is the process by which you come up with the cool, complete image with all the description, and then figure out which elements are absolutely vital, and are in fact so good that they let the reader paint the rest of the picture for themselves. Sometimes it might be necessary to explain to the reader that a character is tall, or how he is moving, but other times, you can just go with the important information and trust that the reader will fill in the details, either with what you wanted or with what the reader wants to visualize when he pictures a grim royal champion.

On a secondary note, this might be part of including too much information, but your sentence lengths were very close most of the time, which makes it tough to absorb your writing. If you think of it like the martial arts you practice, you don't always want to throw a big reverse punch, right? Sometimes you want to do sharp little jabs to set them up for the big reverse punch, and sometimes you want a hook, and sometimes you want to get in close and tangle things up a bit. If you vary the lengths of your sentences and paragraphs a bit more, you'll have an easier time hooking readers into your narrative.

- Telling instead of Showing. This one is murky, and it's like passive voice for me, in that a lot of teachers will flatly say "Never use passive voice" and "never tell when you can show," but really, you have to pick your battles. Sometimes passive voice is the right way to go. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes you need to just say what happens instead of going into detail, and sometimes you need to go into more detail.

For example, when Bertravis kneels at his king's feet and swears and oath, that's something I want to hear. That's a cool badass honor moment, but you glossed over it. There are other instances like this, and I suspect that you might have done this because you were concerned about the pacing of your scene. Fortunately, if you cut out a lot of the additional stuff I mentioned earlier, this scene will be a lot shorter, and you'll have time to zoom in and actually say what Bertravis said to his liege, and what Bertravis said back to him. In fact, if you do that, you can get rid of even more, as the dialogue will imply a lot of what's going on elsewhere.

Overall, I know that style isn't as important as story structure when it comes to novel plotting, but in this case, the style hit me at the point where I wouldn't have wanted to continue. Since this sold to a publisher, I'm assuming that you had a decent story structure, and that means that in your future works (since this one is out, I don't imagine you'll be editing it), you can keep the structural strength you have going and make edits to your story after you've got the first pass written in order to tighten up the scenes and give yourself more room to handle some of the big cool bits that you didn't feel like you had room for in the first pass.

Good luck!
 

Pielorinho

Iron Fist of Pelor
Excellent post, Taky! This looks like really good feedback.

Damiynn, I know you've said that most of the problems were your editor's fault. I'm not sure how much I buy that. While an editor can polish a work, I think you'd really benefit by spending some time really studying your grammar and punctuation intensively. Give your editor less work to do, and she'll love you for it!

Especially for a small press, the editor is likely to be swamped. If you take primary responsibility for your work, turning in a draft as close to flawless as you possibly can, then the editor will be able to work much more efficiently on the remaining flaws.

I once tried to edit a book comprising narratives from the Snohomish Indians in Washington state. Unfortunately, many of the people who transcribed the narratives were barely literate, and the sheer quantity of errors and incoherent passages in the documents overwhelmed me. While you're not in that situation, your editor may end up overwhelmed if you turn in a draft that's rife with errors, and may end up letting a lot slip through.

Daniel
 

Hi damiynn.. thanks for fessing up.

I read some of the excerpts and I think there are some excellent ideas in your novel. As others have said, the narrative structure and grammar need a lot of work. Have you thought about taking a writer's workshop? I've had a couple of friends enroll and they had nothing but good things about the program. Good luck.
 

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
I just looked at the updated excerpts on your website. Much better than what was there before. A few sentences that made me want to scream have been restructured so that they flow better and are two or three shorter sentences. The pacing does not feel quite as frantic as the original excerpts on the website.

I agree with other posters that you do still need to tighten things up some more and a writers workshop would probably be very beneficial.

I have many books I wish to get to, and not a lot of time to read these days. I will probably add this series to my list of books to check out at some point, but cannot say I feel the burning desire to rush right out and get a copy.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Pielorinho said:
While an editor can polish a work, I think you'd really benefit by spending some time really studying your grammar and punctuation intensively. Give your editor less work to do, and she'll love you for it!

And let us remember - many word processors have features to check grammar and puncuation. While not perfect, they can catch most of the egregious errors in a prose piece.
 

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