So after reading the classes in full what do people think?

[pinbot]

The problem I have really is that the Wizard is no longer the guy for creative solutions to problems. There's no more using a minor illusion to cover a pit, or throwing a rope at an enemy and animating it. Or transmuting rock to mud to create a mire, or summoning a celestial monkey to check for traps. Everything a wizard does is just a variation on the fireball now.).

I think that getting rid of the whole "MacGuyver wizard to the rescue!" effect that eventually trumped every out-of-combat obstacle (and most in-combat as well) was quite essential to making all the other classes matter at higher levels.

They still look fun, imho.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The problem I have really is that the Wizard is no longer the guy for creative solutions to problems. There's no more using a minor illusion to cover a pit, or throwing a rope at an enemy and animating it. Or transmuting rock to mud to create a mire, or summoning a celestial monkey to check for traps. Everything a wizard does is just a variation on the fireball now.

There was an entire thread about this before...but the short form is that "creative solution" is another term for "broken" or "hard to adjudicate in game".

In almost every case where a "creative solution" was used, it essentially was an abuse of a power in order to gain benefit WAY beyond its intended purpose.

Even just the above examples can be translated to:
Illusion over a pit: I get the ability to craft an instant, free trap that using the skill rules for trapmaking would have taken multiple days and lots of gold to build. Using the skill rules it would have had a DC 15 to spot that it was a trap, but because it is an illusion, there is no roll at all. Everyone just automatically fails. I gain much better benefit than if I had spent a bunch of skill points instead of one spell.

Throw rope and animate it: Wow, using Animate Rope to entangle someone. That seems a creative use for a spell that animates rope to entangle someone. And infinitely more creative(and useful) than, say, using Tasha's Hideous Laughter to completely incapacitate an enemy.

Transmuting Rock to Mud: Frankly, this isn't creative use of a spell that's specifically designed to do this...so it's not abuse at all.

Summoning a creature to find traps: Here's one. I'll have a 100% chance of finding traps with almost no danger to us OR the ability to summon a monster to help in combat. And it'll be just one of a bunch of abilities I get. Meanwhile, you rogue have a 50% chance of finding and disarming the trap and it might blow up and kill you and it'll be most of your classes entire purpose. Don't worry, I'm not more powerful than you, I'm just the one who comes up with "Creative Solutions".

 

[brehobit]

Don't worry, I'm not more powerful than you, I'm just the one who comes up with "Creative Solutions".

And the solution is apparently to only have magic blow up things.

A more elegant solution might have been nice.

 

[TheSleepyKing]

There was an entire thread about this before...but the short form is that "creative solution" is another term for "broken" or "hard to adjudicate in game"...

I'm not arguing that the wizard should be more powerful than the other classes (and I love what WoTC has done with the other classes, BTW), but that the current spell selection is bland and uninteresting. For probably exactly the reasons you mentioned, WoTC seems to have eliminated every spell that's not entirely expressable using keywords. Their fear of making a broken or abusable class has led them down a path where every spell is basically the same as every other spell, varying only in the amount of damage and number of enemies affected. The upshot is that the wizard seems to me to be boring now, in contrast to the rogue or ranger who can pull of some pretty cool stunts.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

And the solution is apparently to only have magic blow up things.

A more elegant solution might have been nice.

The solution is simple...want to disarm traps? Take Perception and Thievery as class skills and search for them and disarm them. Same way the rogue does it.

Want to slow people down? Sleep spell.

Want to cover a pit? I'd suggest a shovel.

In fact, I'm not entirely sure, but using a shovel MAY even be a more creative solution, since it's not listed on your character sheet to suggest the idea to you.

 

[fedelas]

So seems that from June 6th my favourite class become the rogue (instead of wizard), not too bad...

 

[ender_wiggin]

Now, the creative interesting stuff is a little bit more spread out over ALL the classes instead of being possessed solely by the wizard.

 

[WhatGravitas]

The problem I have really is that the Wizard is no longer the guy for creative solutions to problems. There's no more using a minor illusion to cover a pit, or throwing a rope at an enemy and animating it. Or transmuting rock to mud to create a mire, or summoning a celestial monkey to check for traps. Everything a wizard does is just a variation on the fireball now.

The question is: How many of these things are you actually doing in combat? And can rituals handle the rest?

Because by just looking at the list here, a lot of creative things can be done with these rituals! And a lot of them have Arcana as key skill, which is a trained skill for the wizard. And AFAIK, wizards get some rituals for free (according to that massive "I have the books"-thread).

Cheers, LT.

 

[greatamericanfolkher]

Want to cover a pit? I'd suggest a shovel.

In fact, I'm not entirely sure, but using a shovel MAY even be a more creative solution, since it's not listed on your character sheet to suggest the idea to you.

Small nitpick: There are no shovels in the PHB. (And since it’s not in the PHB, I can’t buy one in the general store in KotS)

 

[Ktulu]

For me, my fav's in 4e are:

Wizard: Went from me never ever ever ever playing one, to already having a decent backstory and just awaiting a game.

Ranger: Finally looks like they've balanced the odd corrolation of feeling like a bada with actually getting to be one. So much better than the 3.x ranger

Fighter: From the most bland class to a very intriguing one. I will definitely play one eventually.

Warlord: Groin stomped the bard and took his place...thankfully.