Sir Osis of Liver
Explorer
On the up side the next book, straits of choas is written by Piratecat, so maybe that'll breath some life into the game.
So is Chaosium Stupid?
Ranger REG
Explorer
If that scenario happens, then it's not going to make me buy Chaosium's products just to convert them into d20. Rather, I look for those who already own Chaosium's products to do the conversion for me.BadMojo said:
Ergo, more money in my pocket. Hehehe.
Nyarlathotep
Explorer
I gotta admit, I just don't get it.
As far as I can see, there is really very little work involved in converting old scenario's over to the d20 system. CoC is all about setting and mood, and as long as Chaosium continues to publish material for CoC (whether it's d20 compatible or not) there will be stuff that can be used. I myself planning on running a modern Delta-Green style campaign using a bunch of the Cthulhu Now! stuff. Where it says "hunting horror" or "shoggoth" I replace the stat-block with one from the d20 CoC book, assign DC numbers for skills as is appropriate for the investigators and problem solved!
The Chaosium adventures are superior to anything I've ever seen from Wizards (with the possible exception of Return to Temple of Elemental Evil, which is certainly the best adventure published by WotC - but compare RttoEE to Horror on the Orient Express, Horror on the Orient Express is much much better*). Personally, I think it's because WotC has to "cater to the lowest common denominator" which in this case happens to be a younger teen audience. This means that to keep mom and dad happy, violence has to be sanitary, horror has to be PC (not Piratecat, but his evil uncle, twice removed, Political Correctness), sex can never be used as a plot device or storyline and so on. CoC, by it's nature appeals to a more mature audience and the "darkness" of the material reflects that.
These adventures can all be easily converted to d20, so WotC not doing any adventures or supplements doesn't bother me at all.
Now... back OT. I can't speak for the Stormbringer/Melnibone line as I haven't ever used it (I've got enough systems to deal with right now, thank you very much). I'd love to check it out, as I'm a fan of the Eternal Champions series by Moorcock. I get the impression from their website that Chaosium doesn't really have a "harem" of staff writers like WotC and most of their material comes from independant authors (like PC now, I suppose - congrats by the way, just don't let it interfere with my regular story hour fixes), which would probably explain a great deal about delays and other problems getting things off to the printer on time etc. etc. It sure do suck, but I think the general high quality (in the Cthulhu line at least) makes up for it.
*Seriously! Do you ever see Wizards publishing an adventure where the cultist are so evil, so nasty and so insane that when they decide to kill the investigators they do it with a flesh beast, a montrosity summoned by sewing live children together and dumping boiling flesh on them? It was one of the creepiest and most disturbing things I had read for an RPG (well until I got Delta-Green:Alien Intelligence) and if it disturbed me, it will terrify my players, the blouse-wearing poodle walkers!
Disclaimer: All opinions are solely my own, certainly not the desires of whims of the Daemon Sultan Azathoth. Also I generally speak from ignorance as I haven't yet cracked the cover on my d20 CoC book - I bought Delta Green: Countdown and Delta Green: Alien Intelligence and had to finish those first... having done so I'd say that they are essential books for anyone running a modern age d20 CoC campaign (or old school Chaosium rules even).
As far as I can see, there is really very little work involved in converting old scenario's over to the d20 system. CoC is all about setting and mood, and as long as Chaosium continues to publish material for CoC (whether it's d20 compatible or not) there will be stuff that can be used. I myself planning on running a modern Delta-Green style campaign using a bunch of the Cthulhu Now! stuff. Where it says "hunting horror" or "shoggoth" I replace the stat-block with one from the d20 CoC book, assign DC numbers for skills as is appropriate for the investigators and problem solved!
The Chaosium adventures are superior to anything I've ever seen from Wizards (with the possible exception of Return to Temple of Elemental Evil, which is certainly the best adventure published by WotC - but compare RttoEE to Horror on the Orient Express, Horror on the Orient Express is much much better*). Personally, I think it's because WotC has to "cater to the lowest common denominator" which in this case happens to be a younger teen audience. This means that to keep mom and dad happy, violence has to be sanitary, horror has to be PC (not Piratecat, but his evil uncle, twice removed, Political Correctness), sex can never be used as a plot device or storyline and so on. CoC, by it's nature appeals to a more mature audience and the "darkness" of the material reflects that.
These adventures can all be easily converted to d20, so WotC not doing any adventures or supplements doesn't bother me at all.
Now... back OT. I can't speak for the Stormbringer/Melnibone line as I haven't ever used it (I've got enough systems to deal with right now, thank you very much). I'd love to check it out, as I'm a fan of the Eternal Champions series by Moorcock. I get the impression from their website that Chaosium doesn't really have a "harem" of staff writers like WotC and most of their material comes from independant authors (like PC now, I suppose - congrats by the way, just don't let it interfere with my regular story hour fixes
), which would probably explain a great deal about delays and other problems getting things off to the printer on time etc. etc. It sure do suck, but I think the general high quality (in the Cthulhu line at least) makes up for it.*Seriously! Do you ever see Wizards publishing an adventure where the cultist are so evil, so nasty and so insane that when they decide to kill the investigators they do it with a flesh beast, a montrosity summoned by sewing live children together and dumping boiling flesh on them? It was one of the creepiest and most disturbing things I had read for an RPG (well until I got Delta-Green:Alien Intelligence) and if it disturbed me, it will terrify my players, the blouse-wearing poodle walkers!
Disclaimer: All opinions are solely my own, certainly not the desires of whims of the Daemon Sultan Azathoth. Also I generally speak from ignorance as I haven't yet cracked the cover on my d20 CoC book - I bought Delta Green: Countdown and Delta Green: Alien Intelligence and had to finish those first... having done so I'd say that they are essential books for anyone running a modern age d20 CoC campaign (or old school Chaosium rules even).
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Ranger REG
Explorer
"Lowest Common Denominator"???
You may be right. I have always regarded CoC as catering to a more mature audience. It's a lot easier for me to deal with goblins and orcs than with a rejected cousin of a gibbering mouther with a deity status.
You may be right. I have always regarded CoC as catering to a more mature audience. It's a lot easier for me to deal with goblins and orcs than with a rejected cousin of a gibbering mouther with a deity status.
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You have to understand production cycles.
It's no secret that DRAGON LORDS OF MELNIBONÉ was released primarily as a way to introduce D20 players to the Elric setting. They released it roughly 7 months after 3e hit. They had also scheduled an introductory adventure.
Delays resulted in the introductory adventure coming out much later than originally intended. I don't know the core reasons for the delays, so I'm not going to speculate. But that is why the adventure is a low-level. It was supposed to come out much sooner.
After DLOM had been in the market for a couple of months, Chaosium was able to see its sales levels were enough for them to re-think the original philosophy, and to devote full support to it. Here's where knowledge of production cycles comes in: they have to hire freelance writers, artists, etc. to produce the material (remember, Chaosium is almost 100% freelance driven...the only core staff is management).
Giving time for the freelancers to produce material, and production, and you'll start seeing support begin to hit in the next couple of months.
How do I know this? I'm the author of the next release, CULTS OF LAW & CHAOS, a book detailing Moorcock's pantheon, its cults and churches, and its followers. At the direction of Chaosium, this book is intended to be usable for campaigns set in or out of the Young Kingdoms. Gamers should be able to lift the entire pantheon and drop it into their own campaign, or just use the various cults and religious prestige classes piecemeal.
So, in other words: Chaosium has figured it out. They hear ya....and the stuff is coming.
GMS
It's no secret that DRAGON LORDS OF MELNIBONÉ was released primarily as a way to introduce D20 players to the Elric setting. They released it roughly 7 months after 3e hit. They had also scheduled an introductory adventure.
Delays resulted in the introductory adventure coming out much later than originally intended. I don't know the core reasons for the delays, so I'm not going to speculate. But that is why the adventure is a low-level. It was supposed to come out much sooner.
After DLOM had been in the market for a couple of months, Chaosium was able to see its sales levels were enough for them to re-think the original philosophy, and to devote full support to it. Here's where knowledge of production cycles comes in: they have to hire freelance writers, artists, etc. to produce the material (remember, Chaosium is almost 100% freelance driven...the only core staff is management).
Giving time for the freelancers to produce material, and production, and you'll start seeing support begin to hit in the next couple of months.
How do I know this? I'm the author of the next release, CULTS OF LAW & CHAOS, a book detailing Moorcock's pantheon, its cults and churches, and its followers. At the direction of Chaosium, this book is intended to be usable for campaigns set in or out of the Young Kingdoms. Gamers should be able to lift the entire pantheon and drop it into their own campaign, or just use the various cults and religious prestige classes piecemeal.
So, in other words: Chaosium has figured it out. They hear ya....and the stuff is coming.
GMS
Ranger REG
Explorer
Well, since they are hearing us, I have two words for them: REVISED EDITION.GMSkarka said:
trancejeremy
Adventurer
saduff said:
That's not really true, though. As soon as Deadlands d20 came out, they put out a series of d20 only Deadlands sourcebooks. The various class splatbooks, and the Horrors of the Weird West.
They don't see d20 as replacing their Deadlands rules, but just as another option. Thus all future source material (as opposed to rules) will be dual statted.
Chaosium could easily have followed a model like that with DLOM and Elric 2.0/Stormbringer 5.0
JoeGKushner
First Post
GMSkarka said:
Thanks for the info but why then, is H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands Hardcover for Call of Cthulhu coming out with no stats for d20? Now please don't say that Chaosim was unaware that D20 was coming because they've had notes on their own Pulp book for some time.
http://www.chaosium.com/cthulhu/rpg/2394.shtml
Where the new hardcover (about the 3rd or 4th edition of this book) is. Great looking book but unless I see d20 on it, I'm skipping it. I already have a previous edition.
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