So what do you envision for 4.0E D&D?

[shadow]

Well, before we see D&D 4e, we will see 3.7e and 3.75e.
Anyway here are some of my predictions for 4e.

1. Miniatures are absolutely ESSENTIAL for the game. You no longer create characters, but instead have to buy miniatures with their stats printed on a clickable base.

2. Spell lists will be replaced by random spell cards. Every few months you will have to buy new expansion sets of spell cards to keep up with everyone else.

3. D&D will cease to be a role playing game. Ha$bro will license the D&D property out to toy lines, computer games, and movies, making millions of dollars on "brand recognition" and leaving the game itself to rot.

 

[Sir Elton]

Well, before we see D&D 4e, we will see 3.7e and 3.75e.
Anyway here are some of my predictions for 4e.

1. Miniatures are absolutely ESSENTIAL for the game. You no longer create characters, but instead have to buy miniatures with their stats printed on a clickable base.

2. Spell lists will be replaced by random spell cards. Every few months you will have to buy new expansion sets of spell cards to keep up with everyone else.

3. D&D will cease to be a role playing game. Ha$bro will license the D&D property out to toy lines, computer games, and movies, making millions of dollars on "brand recognition" and leaving the game itself to rot.

This may actually happen.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

In terms of any of the following:

Classes
Mechanics
Spells
Balance
Alignment
Feats
Prestige classes
Monsters
Magic
Other

More than three non-magic classes. Ditch magic from the ranger, for starters. The monk could use a lot less magic, too.

I'd like to see a toning down of several overpowered spells, including many save-or-die spells, a few all-or-nothing defense spells, and those infinite loops. In return, give wizards d6 hp and some spells that boost AC. And toss in AU's immunity spell, too - I think it's silly there's no core spell that can protect you from flesh to stone, a lower-level spell than finger of death.

I'd like to see a martial artist that works (like D20 Modern), with BAB +1 and without the huge damage, huge speed and random ki abilities.

I'd like to see less emphasis on treasure - I'm handing out 14 Mona Lisa's per encounter if I use a random treasure generator, and creating a new high-level PC is just too much (ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, two or three stat-boosting items...). I'd like to see the fighter, at high level, have a +2 bastard sword instead of a +5 bastard sword ... but get bigger bonuses to hit and damage to make up for it.

I'd like to see Mord's Disjunction get a huge nerf ... but if equipment is made less valuable and classes are made more valuable to make up for it the spell wouldn't be horribly horribly broken.

I'd like to see class bonuses to AC, with the martial artist probably getting the highest bonus.

I'd like to see rules for parrying as well - there were some neat looking ones in a Dragon Magazine.

I'd like to see saving throws use the "medium" and "poor" charts like you find in D20 Modern and Star Wars d20. You can get too-high save bonuses from excessive multiclassing.

Finally, I'd like WotC to spend lots of time making the product, instead of trying to rush it out for an artificial deadline. They should hire some of the smarter people on the boards as playtesters too. (No, I'm not talking about myself here.)

 

[DanMcS]

I'd like to see class bonuses to AC, with the martial artist probably getting the highest bonus.

Dunno why, that made a random neuron fire. If the martial artist was based off the fighter, you could get the same result for martial artists and for other light-armor types by having there be feat chains that allow stuff like int bonus, wis bonus, and better dodges, to AC if you aren't wearing armor. Then don't have every fighter start off with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor proficiency, but instead with bonus feats that can be spent on armor profs, or AC feats. Presto, you simplify the class chart (since a martial artist is just a fighter with different weapons, no need to have two classes), make light fighters viable, and created some feats that other classes might get some use out of, like rogues or wizards.

I'd like to see saving throws use the "medium" and "poor" charts like you find in D20 Modern and Star Wars d20. You can get too-high save bonuses from excessive multiclassing.

Not necessary if you change the base save bonus progression to be smooth, ie a level of fighter and a level of barbarian doesn't give you a fort of +4, but +3, the same as if you were in a class with good fort save progression for two levels. This is a common house rule for 3e already, make it the default rule. Then the max base save at 20th level is +12, and the minimum is +6, no matter how many times you multiclass.

 

[babomb]

The monk could use a lot less magic, too.

[...]

I'd like to see a martial artist that works (like D20 Modern), with BAB +1 and without the huge damage, huge speed and random ki abilities.

For a "real-world" game, that's fine. However, when I play a martial artist in a fantasy game, I don't want to be Daniel in <i>Karate Kid</i>; I want to be Li Mu Bai in <i>Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon</i>.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Dunno why, that made a random neuron fire. If the martial artist was based off the fighter, you could get the same result for martial artists and for other light-armor types by having there be feat chains that allow stuff like int bonus, wis bonus, and better dodges, to AC if you aren't wearing armor.

Woah! This is what broke the duelist 3.0! Using ability scores this way only seems to cause huge balance problems.

That's why I'd rather have a class bonus to AC, with feats that boost the AC (but not by way too much).

Then don't have every fighter start off with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor proficiency, but instead with bonus feats that can be spent on armor profs, or AC feats. Presto, you simplify the class chart (since a martial artist is just a fighter with different weapons, no need to have two classes), make light fighters viable, and created some feats that other classes might get some use out of, like rogues or wizards.

That would be cool ... although I'd want to keep heavy armor cheap. (If you want to be a knight...)

Not necessary if you change the base save bonus progression to be smooth, ie a level of fighter and a level of barbarian doesn't give you a fort of +4, but +3, the same as if you were in a class with good fort save progression for two levels. This is a common house rule for 3e already, make it the default rule. Then the max base save at 20th level is +12, and the minimum is +6, no matter how many times you multiclass.

You have a point.

For a "real-world" game, that's fine. However, when I play a martial artist in a fantasy game, I don't want to be Daniel in Karate Kid; I want to be Li Mu Bai in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Who chooses these abilities? Right now the "magic-filled" monk class has randomly-assigned ki abilities (by random I mean someone in WotC's head office, not by the player).

It's clear WotC can't and won't do this part.

Now, if I wanted to be Li Mu Bai, I'd have to be high-level or take a serious penalty, in game balance terms. I'm not willing to drop to 3/4 BAB though.

Maybe make a "magic monk" prestige class, with chooseable abilities like what the tattooed monk has. Hmmm...

Another idea is to have a whole bunch of martial-artist-specific feats. Some are magical (like letting you move really fast) and some wouldn't be magical at all (like improvised weapon).

 

[A'koss]

I'm basically on the same page as Psi here, however I'd like to see better high level game balance... compressing the disparities between the classes somewhat (DCs and Saves, HPs between the classes, AC, general power, etc.) and creating a little more predictability in character power at these levels.

Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[Valiantheart]

I am certainly hoping for a little more modularity among the core character classes both in terms of special abilities and what roles they fill. A fighter should be able to represent the lighty armored mobile swashbuckler, the hulking Tank, or the fleet footed Archer. Perhaps each class should have 2 or 3 paths to go down which might include path specific feats, special abilites, or spell casting mechanics.

I am also very much in favor of a class based dodge bonus. A higher level character should be able avoid more blows than a low level one and I dont think hitpoints adequately represent that. Go watch "Kill Bill" to see how a high level fighter/rogue should be able to mow down mooks even without any armor.

Another addition I would make is better access to Class Skills. Dont make make Skills completely dependent on class only. Maybe allow each player to pick a few skills at creation which always are class skill for them.

I can understand that WOTC is trying to represent some the Core archetypes with their base classes but they still fail in many cases.

 

[TroyXavier]

I definitely would like one spellcasting chart, and MC into the various spellcasting stacks(at least the core). Also, eliminate the 4 level casting except for PrCs. Not sure which to do with bards.

 

[DanMcS]

Woah! This is what broke the duelist 3.0! Using ability scores this way only seems to cause huge balance problems.

Feh. Is the monk "broken"? He gets this ability, albeit with wisdom and not int, from level 1 on. The duelist wasn't a problem before. If it really bugs you, though, you can note that I said "feat chain" and not a single feat. Or you could just limit it by BAB or something.