So what's the most powerful combo in Rifts?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I actually think that one of the best things about the RIFTS system (IOW, mechanics, not fluff) was its absolute rejection of balance. The huge variety of OCCs and RCCs and their wildly varied power levels means that a typical party can be uniform or filled with peaks & valleys of potency, meaning roles get clearly defined.

Kind of like superhero groups. (Superman vs Batman, anyone?)

IME, it definitely encouraged tactical and strategic thinking.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Kind of like superhero groups. (Superman vs Batman, anyone?)

Yeah, and wasn't there an episode of that in which Superman tells the badguy "look, the only reason I don't crush every threat solo is because I'm holding back all the time" and then proceeds to single-handedly defeat him?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Yeah, and wasn't there an episode of that in which Superman tells the badguy "look, the only reason I don't crush every threat solo is because I'm holding back all the time" and then proceeds to single-handedly defeat him?

You might be thinking of the World of Cardboard speech from late in season 3 of the Justice League Unlimited animated sereies.

 

[Saeviomagy]

You might be thinking of the World of Cardboard speech from late in season 3 of the Justice League Unlimited animated sereies.

Yup, that's the one. The point holds: Superman fights side by side with Batman, and the whole time he's holding back to play nice.

Now, why exactly do you want that built into character creation? I mean the justice league unlimited example is the best possible case in terms of storytelling: the player always holds back all the time. Mechanically we may as well just balance the characters in the first place, and if the DM really wants one character to overshadow all the rest for a session, he can just do it. That at least avoids the scenario where the character overshadows everyone else in every single game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The way I handled the mechanical imbalance of OCCs/RCCs was by using RW tactics.

If the NPCs see a Glitterboy and a few Atlantean Tattooed Men charging them, unless they recognize the Atlanteans for what they are, they will concentrate fire on the obvious threat- the Glitterboy.

Its like a modern army seeing a main battle tank surrounded by infantry. Sure, the infantry matters, but the obvious and immediate threat is the tank.

In the meantime, the "lesser" threats have a momentary reprieve from being targeted by NPC railguns, etc., right up until they prove themselves to be a danger to the NPCs or the Glitterboy goes down.

Now, why exactly do you want that built into character creation?

Because its realistic(ish):

In a given military or quasi military organization, no two units have the same strengths and weaknesses. The tank is powerful, yes, but without support from other units, it can be destroyed with alarming ease...by 2 lowly infantrymen hiding in the bushes with a LAW.

The imbalance in OCCs/RCCs reflects this.

Because it promotes roleplay:

If you're in the middle of a MDC battle without MDC armor, you've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gun fight. Your PC can't just stand there and fight to the bitter (and quick) end- he has to think & act like someone who is a bit fragile for the events of the moment and find other ways to contribute.

Because...well, its 4:30 AM where I am, I'm going to leave additional justifications to those that want to or need to add them.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If the NPCs see a Glitterboy and a few Atlantean Tattooed Men charging them, unless they recognize the Atlanteans for what they are, they will concentrate fire on the obvious threat- the Glitterboy.

Unfortunately this seems to be assuming that your NPCs are idiots. You, I and they all know the following
1. Anyone could be carrying an MDC pistol, rifle, grenades, or wielding mindbending powers or dangerous magic.

2. Anyone in the world of rifts who is heading into battle and isn't wearing armor is not a normal human being. Hell, anyone just hanging around in the wilderness not wearing armor is not a normal human being.

3. Even people who are wearing MDC body armor are ridiculously easier to kill than people piloting a glitterboy. Chances are you can kill the lot of them with a single grenade. Which will also hurt the glitterboy.

In a given military or quasi military organization, no two units have the same strengths and weaknesses. The tank is powerful, yes, but without support from other units, it can be destroyed with alarming ease...by 2 lowly infantrymen hiding in the bushes with a LAW.

So... yet again, why are you ignoring infantry to kill the glitterboy again?

The imbalance in OCCs/RCCs reflects this.

Because it promotes roleplay:

True, real life isn't fair. Real life battle isn't usually fun either.

If you're in the middle of a MDC battle without MDC armor, you've brought the proverbial knife to the proverbial gun fight. Your PC can't just stand there and fight to the bitter (and quick) end- he has to think & act like someone who is a bit fragile for the events of the moment and find other ways to contribute.

It's not just MDC vs non MDC, it's the sheer range of everything involved. Even if you go out and get yourself MDC armor and an MDC gun, chances are there's any number of PCs who can do absolutely everything you can do only better.

 

[ForceUser]

My friends and I enjoyed playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in high school, a super hero RPG which used RIFTS game mechanics, but we were done with RIFTS proper shortly after character creation. Everyone went home and made their own characters using whatever sourcebooks were available, and when we next convened we had a dragon, a glitterboy, a ninja, and an anthropomorphic cat. We all agreed that we had no idea how to make a game work with such a weird and unbalanced party, so we moved on to a different game system, and that was that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Unfortunately this seems to be assuming that your NPCs are idiots. You, I and they all know the following
1. Anyone could be carrying an MDC pistol, rifle, grenades, or wielding mindbending powers or dangerous magic.

And until any of those is in evidence, the best option is concentration of fire on the most obvious threat. Otherwise, you're potentially wasting firepower "swatting gnats."

2. Anyone in the world of rifts who is heading into battle and isn't wearing armor is not a normal human being. Hell, anyone just hanging around in the wilderness not wearing armor is not a normal human being.

That is an assumption not supported by my experience with the game. I've seen players who were perfectly willing to go into battle with a decent weapon and no armor. In this, they shared common tactics with many of the world's irregulars, who may enter battle with only an RPG and no helmet or flak vest.

3. Even people who are wearing MDC body armor are ridiculously easier to kill than people piloting a glitterboy. Chances are you can kill the lot of them with a single grenade. Which will also hurt the glitterboy.

So far, none of the vagabonds I've seen in play has been dumb enough to stand that close to the Glitterboy (or SAMAS, or whatever) in combat. When the fit hits the shan, they scatter.

So... yet again, why are you ignoring infantry to kill the glitterboy again?

Its the obvious target. When you attack armor mixed with infantry, armor is the primary target. If you have firepower enough to engage both simultaneously (as some armor does), you may do so, but not if doing so would endanger your guys. For example, while a typical tank has both anti-armor and anti-personnel weapons, using many of the anti-personnel munitions would require operating in a way that would be ill-advised when also engaged with opposing armor. So you target the armor first, then strike infantry.

OR

You operate in mixed units yourself, so your armor can engage armor and your infantry can engage infantry.

 

[Saeviomagy]

That is an assumption not supported by my experience with the game. I've seen players who were perfectly willing to go into battle with a decent weapon and no armor. In this, they shared common tactics with many of the world's irregulars, who may enter battle with only an RPG and no helmet or flak vest.

There's a pretty big difference between the effectiveness of a flak vest/helmet in the real world, and having or not having MDC capacity.

So far, none of the vagabonds I've seen in play has been dumb enough to stand that close to the Glitterboy (or SAMAS, or whatever) in combat. When the fit hits the shan, they scatter.

And in an ambush? I mean sure, you can play your character as though you're a 3e wizard with 5 con, but eventually someone is going to hit you.

 

[jdrakeh]

I was thinking about the over-the-top craziness in Rifts and started wondering what the most powerful combo in the game is. So anyone know?

If I remember my Rifts Conversion Book One correctly, any SDC creature from another world (i.e., another Palladium game) that enters Rifts Earth via a rift becomes an MDC creature and retains all of their abilities. This being the case, I'd go with something totally crazy like an Old One from the world of Palladium Fantasy — if there wasn't already an Old One from the world of Palladium Fantasy lurking on Rifts Earth (there is).