D&D 4E Social interactions in 4E

[GreatLemur]

I like the implication that the new social combat rules will be optional, or at least additional.

Hell, this is D&D. Every rule is optional.

 

[HeyJoe]

I guess I just don't get it. As both a DM and a player I have always roleplayed these scenarios. If my character has an 8 charisma and a 6 intelligence, I roleplay him as such. If the party is dealing with a greedy and conniving merchant, then as a DM I roleplay the merchant in that way...

Some things just don't need defined "rules".

 

[F4NBOY]

I've always played social encounters that way too. For each point someone makes, he rolls a diplomacy check, the winner side is the with better points or better checks.
It's not about making a correct point, it's also important HOW you introduce your views, so the diplomacy check covers that.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

I guess I just don't get it. As both a DM and a player I have always roleplayed these scenarios. If my character has an 8 charisma and a 6 intelligence, I roleplay him as such. If the party is dealing with a greedy and conniving merchant, then as a DM I roleplay the merchant in that way...

Some things just don't need defined "rules".

The rules IMO should provide guidelines for DM and Players alike. If I play a Cha. 20 Int. 17 Bard with the mob problem I posed earlier in this thread, but am not the most eloquent in RL (and therefore like to play an eloquent character) I will have problems talking it out with the DM in roleplay.

And to use your example, if your merchant haggles with the beautiful elven bard. How do I rule which party "looses" (ie. pays to much or sells it too cheap) the "encounter"?
Having some rules and an idea how to handle this helps the DM.
And last but not least, some Players like to roleplay social encounters in real time for say 30-60minutes, some Players like to roleplay them for a few minutes and some just want to rollplay it to go on with the plot.
There has to be something for everybody.

 

[Kaodi]

War of the Words. Yay.

 

[HeyJoe]

And last but not least, some Players like to roleplay social encounters in real time for say 30-60minutes, some Players like to roleplay them for a few minutes and some just want to rollplay it to go on with the plot.
There has to be something for everybody.

True enough. I tried to encourage everyone to actively roleplay, but there were times when we just wanted to advance the main storyline and skipped the haggling and other non-essential roleplay encounters. Basically I left it up to the players unless it was plot critical situation.

 

[heirodule]

So what's the reason to quantify these types of encounters with rules?

Because then you can assign a challenge rating to it and give XP for it in a systematic way.

In Living Greyhawk, Steven Radney-Mcfarland stepped in and stopped LG mods from giving out lots of XP for defeating encounters through negotiation, or giving XP for "story goals". (You could have like 10% of the XP from that) The putative rationale was D&D only gave XP for defeating encounters through things that spent resources.

 

[Intrope]

I think this was less of an issue with pigeonholing the fighter (something that is going to happen in a class based system in some fashion) as a problem with the skill system.

In 3E there were pretty much only 3 tiers of skill that were important. There was no skill, in which case you didn't bother with anything non-routine. Then there was "maxed out for your level" which assumed it was a class skill and you would have a 50-50 chance or slightly better of exceeding the challenge, and there was "specialized" (maxed out skill points, plus skill focus and other bonuses) where you pretty much always succeeded at your challenges at your level.'

In 3E having maxed out a cross-class skill was sort of pointless. You would be fine with routine things, but would have little chance at any skill attempts that were supposed to be at your level.

This is a good point. If we look to Saga for guidance, we'd note that the 3 social skills (Deception, Gather Information, Persuasion) are Class only for Nobles & Scoundrels (2 of 5 classes; Jedi also have a way to get Persuasion via a Talent). However, all classes get the 1/2 class level bonus to all skills, so higher-level characters of any class will be able to do modestly well (about the same as maxed-out cross class, actually). Also, all functions of these skills are usable Untrained, so there's no special abilities to unlock. Finally, you could try for a cooperative effort (aka Aid Another) for these at least some of the time.

 

[Glyfair]

This is a good point. If we look to Saga for guidance, we'd note that the 3 social skills (Deception, Gather Information, Persuasion) are Class only for Nobles & Scoundrels (2 of 5 classes; Jedi also have a way to get Persuasion via a Talent). However, all classes get the 1/2 class level bonus to all skills, so higher-level characters of any class will be able to do modestly well (about the same as maxed-out cross class, actually). Also, all functions of these skills are usable Untrained, so there's no special abilities to unlock. Finally, you could try for a cooperative effort (aka Aid Another) for these at least some of the time.

Also, although it's pretty clear that the Star Wars Saga rules for skills will be the direction they are headed it, there will certainly be differences. I know most here realize it, but it bears repeating.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

I guess I just don't get it. As both a DM and a player I have always roleplayed these scenarios. If my character has an 8 charisma and a 6 intelligence, I roleplay him as such. If the party is dealing with a greedy and conniving merchant, then as a DM I roleplay the merchant in that way...

Some things just don't need defined "rules".

Yes, that's fine. There are also a good number of players who will play their character with their own mental stats and the like, causing the DM all sorts of headaches. Better to have rules, then have some groups houserule them out, than to have to houserule it in.

-TRRW