Solving the "Let's Rob the Magic Shop" Problem

[Desdichado]

My go-to solution is the epic-level shopkeeper, but I've got to admit it's pretty ham-handed. How else do you keep a gang of wild murderhobos from taking all of a 3rd level commoner's worldly goods and breaking your economy?

Better players. Plus, no magic item shops anyway.

 

[Fauchard1520]

Better players.

You make an interesting point. I sometimes wonder how much design time should be spent thinking around the hypothetical That Guys of the world vs. focusing on the other aspects of the game. I guess it's a plugging holes vs. building new boats mentality.

 

[Kobold Boots]

You make an interesting point. I sometimes wonder how much design time should be spent thinking around the hypothetical That Guys of the world vs. focusing on the other aspects of the game. I guess it's a plugging holes vs. building new boats mentality.

There was a period of time in the 90s where I'd keep recruiting to fill chairs that didn't exist at my table. It's hard to find good people no matter why you're looking for them and gamers can be unpredictable.

 

[Sunseeker]

yeah I think it's an extension of the social contract to play - you dont rob the magic shop, or the baron's treasury, etc - even though it might make good sense to after a few levels.

The Baron and the Vendor I think, would be more inclined to treat you well as clients the more good you did for them and their city.

I feel like "rob the magic item shop" is a reaction to Magic Item Vendors who are jerks...and extensions of jerk DMs who either overcharge or treat the players poorly when they try to do things the right way. Vendors who essentially try to rob the players encourage the players to try to rob the vendors.

 

[delericho]

How else do you keep a gang of wild murderhobos from taking all of a 3rd level commoner's worldly goods and breaking your economy?

One of three things.

Most commonly, my solution to not have magic item shops. Items can be bought or sold, but it's a matter of finding an individual buyer/seller, agreeing a price, and then a fairly tense exchange of items and money. For convenience, we handwave all that, since I'm not running the D&D Shopping Channel, but that's basically it.

My second preference would be to have the magic item shop, let them perform the heist, and then apply all the logical consequences. Most likely including a fairly swift TPK, because people who run a magic item economy are powerful, ruthless, and not keen on second chances.

My third preference, if I really want the convenience of a MIS and really don't want the hassle of dealing with a heist, is to simply tell the players that this is a no-no. (There's a short list of other behaviours that aren't permitted at my table, either in-character or out-. It's not something I use lightly, but for some few things...)

 

[Thomas Bowman]

No, it really isn't. I have never had fun when the party does stuff like this. I have no interest in running them through GTA: D&D.

Then its between you and the player who wants to rob the magic shop, a good DM should be neutral, anyway its only an imaginary magic shop. A good DM would make robbing the magic shop as difficult or more so than stealing a similar item from a monster's treasure. Bad decisions have consequences though. A player character that gets himself into trouble with the authorities sort of creates his own adventures. One time I DMed such a player, he liked to steal stuff, he really got into his role as a thief.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

The Baron and the Vendor I think, would be more inclined to treat you well as clients the more good you did for them and their city.

I feel like "rob the magic item shop" is a reaction to Magic Item Vendors who are jerks...and extensions of jerk DMs who either overcharge or treat the players poorly when they try to do things the right way. Vendors who essentially try to rob the players encourage the players to try to rob the vendors.

The World includes all sorts of people including he jerks and the bad guys, the DM gets to play all of them. If the DM represents the World realistically including jerks running magic shops, that makes the adventure seem more real. Players have to decide what kind of characters they want to be. Not everyone is going to want to be a noble paladin, there is something called "low fantasy" this is where players play characters who aren't exactly heroes, I believe Conan the Barbarian was one of those.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

One of three things.

Most commonly, my solution to not have magic item shops. Items can be bought or sold, but it's a matter of finding an individual buyer/seller, agreeing a price, and then a fairly tense exchange of items and money. For convenience, we handwave all that, since I'm not running the D&D Shopping Channel, but that's basically it.

My second preference would be to have the magic item shop, let them perform the heist, and then apply all the logical consequences. Most likely including a fairly swift TPK, because people who run a magic item economy are powerful, ruthless, and not keen on second chances.

My third preference, if I really want the convenience of a MIS and really don't want the hassle of dealing with a heist, is to simply tell the players that this is a no-no. (There's a short list of other behaviours that aren't permitted at my table, either in-character or out-. It's not something I use lightly, but for some few things...)

Why do you care if your player characters want to steal imaginary things in an imaginary world? I am sure that if you DMed it right your imaginary world would have imaginary consequences for the imaginary player characters act of wrong doing. You ever read a book called Lord Foul's Bane?

This trilogy begins with a character who did something bad at the beginning of the first book.

 

[delericho]

Why do you care if your player characters want to steal imaginary things in an imaginary world? I am sure that if you DMed it right...

One of the DM's jobs (probably the most important job) is to ensure that all the players enjoy the game as much as possible - including the DM. If the DM doesn't want to run a game where the PCs steal from the Magic Item Store, he is under no obligation to run that game.

This trilogy begins with a character who did something bad at the beginning of the first book.

I haven't read it, but I know the story. The act in question is another one of those actions on my 'banned' list - I won't play in a game where that happens, and I won't have it in my game. If you're determined to have your character do that, you'll need to find a new DM.

(I should note, again: that 'banned' list is very short, and I don't add to it lightly. But it's not empty, and I make no apology for that.)

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Lord Foul's Bane is an extreme example, the reason the character did it was because he felt the World he was witnessing was not real, so he figured he could get away with stuff without consequences, that is why he was called the Unbeliever. For the rest of the novel, he was motivated by guilt for that one act. In a real world, bad things happen, and characters have to make choices about right and wrong. I don't have a list of banned actions, I figure I either trust to players to make good decisions or I do not. I noticed than in some of the old D&D modules for example, each encounter had contingencies in case the players were determined to be murder-hobos, a store proprietor was given combat statistics in case the players tried to rob the store, and details were given about various sorts of traps and so forth guarding the inventory.

You ever play the Keep on the Borderlands? That module was set up that way, the authors didn't know what the players were going to do, so they anticipated every possibly contingency including what if the players decided to play characters that wanted to rob and steal, and how the NPCs would react to that. Admittedly I would get tired of DMing players who wanted to play evil characters, but I figure it is the DMs job to be neutral, one of the hard parts of being the DM is portraying evil characters in a realistic way, it is the evil characters that create the adventure after all. Generally its the PCs job to fight the bad guys. if the players want to do bad things, that doesn't mean they are on the same side as the villains who are driving the plot. If the villain's goals directly affect the PCs in a adverse way, they are going to have to do something about it, whether they are heroes or not!