Something that has to be modeled in this game and currently is not

[Sunseeker]

I think you need to expand upon why this is a "must" when it has never been modeled in D&D before.

We could resort back to the stat-drain model, we could bypass the whole "health points" with that model fairly easily by applying stacking debuffs to the raw stat. I don't think it's a particularly good system, but it models your concept well without introducing a new type of "points" and a way of reducing or increasing them.

We could have a more finite condition system, which while not always directly adjusting specific scores or numbers, could alter the control over your character, such as losing movements, actions, or being forced to take specific actions in order to overcome a condition. I don't think this models your concept well, but I wouldn't mind more finely tuned conditions.

I suppose we could add a WP/VP system, but I don't see the necessity, it's never been there before and taking from other games, I don't feel it works well with a flat HP-bar system, and in the systems it does work well with have numerous other systems to help balance it out(such as body parts or armor as damage reduction).

I say: anything that is needed to last above and beyond the "rest cycle" can be left up to DM fiat. EX:
You are all traveling through the mountains, make a fort save.
*John and Sue roll under 10.
Razer the Barbarian(john) and Phillip the Mage(sue) begin to sneeze and cough, and their speed is reduced by 10ft.
It's now two days later, Jon & Sue, make a fort save.
*both roll low again.
Your companions seem to be getting seriously ill, you're not sure what they have but they can't move quickly and are weakened. (throw in your own debuffs here)
It's now a week later, Jon and Sue are horribly sick and must seek immediate medical attention from someone trained in the healing arts(not just someone with high "heal" skills). They must make a fort save every turn or get worse(more creative penalties, hp loss, raw stat damage, ect..), if their health drops to 0, they must make death saving throws with a -X penalty.

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I don't think D&D needs specific systems to model specific statuses or damage types(though some supplementary rules might be nice at some point). It just needs to give the Dm the power to be creative. As long as the DM can be creative, then anything can be modeled in the game. If the DM has no room for creativity, then specific, structured frameworks are necessary. I should hope the latter is not the case.

 

[Umbran]

What hps lack is any way of modeling disability, and you do see heroes in genre struggling against disabling wounds, curses, and other circumstance, even if they generally are able to overcome them just long enough to do something heroic at the critical moment. Some sort of system to model disabling afflictions would be good.

So, we want to model disabilities that we expect won't really be an issue, because the heroes overcome them anyway?

I twisted my ankle, so I have a limp - but, when it really counts, I push past that and can get the job done. If someone came up to me and tried to kill me, it'd be a bit easier than if I were whole, but otherwise it doesn't actually stop me when the chips are down...

There's a desire to put in modifiers, sure. But, if, when all is said and done, we expect (and thus design the system so that) the hero *will* overcome those modifiers, why are we putting them in at all?

 

[Stormonu]

There are times I wish the D&D system ha a decent method to model twisted ankles, broken bones and lost limbs other than by HP loss. Not something terribly difficult to track or implement, but a nod to those stories where the hero fights with one arm as his other has been crushed or broken or the PC/NPC with wooden leg, glass eye or hook hand.

Currently, D&D just doesn't bother with that stuff, and I doubt it ever will.

 

[cmbarona]

I definitely get where you're coming from. To illustrate my own encounter with this problem, I ran a game where the PCs met a bodyguard in a hospital who had survived a vicious attack on his client. The Paladin in the group assumed that Lay on Hands would go a long way to cure him, and at that moment I had the epiphany that HP were modeling entirely different things between me and the player. I had to explain that his wounds were of the sort that a simple Lay on Hands wouldn't fix. No one made a big deal of it, and I'm very glad for that, because it could have gotten complicated to explain in a consistent way very fast.

I can see the desire for a more elaborate wound system, but it would be very important to model without it getting too complicated. There's an inherent difficulty in balancing the abstract nature of HP with the very non-abstract concept of injuries we've seen or read about in our daily lives.

One very important consideration for gamers like myself who like the Warlord is to not sweep all healing under the "magic" rug. Perhaps magic only works while the wound is fresh and the blood is still flowing. 3rd edition Shadowrun's healing had a similar limitation. Perhaps there could be a simple "wounded" condition for anyone who has fallen to 0 HP or below, which can only be removed by an appropriate amount of off-screen rest or certain spells. I don't know. Whatever the case, it's important to hold these things together with the idea that combat injuries are also quite deadly.

 

[D'karr]

There are times I wish the D&D system ha a decent method to model twisted ankles, broken bones and lost limbs other than by HP loss. Not something terribly difficult to track or implement, but a nod to those stories where the hero fights with one arm as his other has been crushed or broken or the PC/NPC with wooden leg, glass eye or hook hand.

Currently, D&D just doesn't bother with that stuff, and I doubt it ever will.

I did this for my 4e game by using the disease track.

You can see some of the templates created for it here.

 

[Manbearcat]

I actually just mentioned this in another thread but the 4e Disease Track system is exceedingly elegant and user-friendly to handle extra-encounter conditions of various types. Further, it can be coupled with Healing Surge loss and Skill Challenges whereby micro-failures lead to further HS loss or DT checks and Skill Challenge resolution failures lead to the inability to take short rests and/or long rests (to recoup Healing Surges et al) and you are looking at the ability to model all manner of disability/exposure. And your game has become considerably more grim and dangerous.

 

[Umbran]

Not something terribly difficult to track or implement

Difficult, no. But, annoying? Go look for the arguments on stacking conditions - it can get kind of tedious.

The question is whether you get your bang for the buck. D&D is traditionally loaded with modifiers you can stack onto creatures and characters. If that limp is just one more -2 in a swarm of other modifiers, that's just not terribly interesting (to me), doesn't seem to add much to the game, and I question why one would bother.

Contrast this to, say, the Dresden Files game - where such conditions are a primary way characters keep themselves from getting killed, and a great deal of the mechanic is centered upon creating, manipulating, and exploiting such conditions, and it becomes another story.

but a nod to those stories where the hero fights with one arm as his other has been crushed or broken or the PC/NPC with wooden leg, glass eye or hook hand.

Well, the hook hand and glass eye are permanent disabilities. That's a different creature than a temporary impediment.

 

[Meatboy]

I generally like to use a modified massive damage threshold. In 3.x a character needs to take 50 damage from a single attack then make a fort save DC 15 or be knocked to 0 hp. Unfortunately I think 50 is really high at low levels (honestly a level 1-5 character is pretty much dead anyway if they take that much damage) or at higher levels a dc 15 save is pretty laughable. By decreasing the damage and having a some kind of sliding scale for the save it seems, at least in my games, to keep combat deadly but not adding too much extra or having to track lots of other things.

I find a base MDT of CON mod. +4 + level works to make combat mimic something more deadly. So at level 1 players can usually sustain 4-9 points of damage from a single hit before they have a possibilty of having to make a save or go down.

 

[howandwhy99]

Isn't the game almost entirely 2 types of results from a die roll? Hit Point loss or gaining a Condition?

I wouldn't mind more variety, but we might get a little less to start.

 

[john112364]

For me personally, it wouldn't be of much use. I just don't care about such things. I don't feel it brings much into the game except something else to track.

However, I think it would make an excellent module for those interested. And, as previously mentioned, I think the disease track from 4e is an very good model for this. You could easily have one for disease (duh!), poison, starvation, fatigue, etc.
I suppose you could make one for injured limbs and such too. Set a DC for severity, modified by how much damage you take. The worse you fail, the worse the injury. Say a DC of 15, +1 for every 10 points of damage taken. For very 5 points failed you move down the tack one notch indicating your injury.

Like I say, not for me, but it makes an interesting thought excersise.