FoxWander said:
{snip} Anyway, all of this leads up to a lineage type you don't have yet. So here's my contribution-
Thanks for all the comments. I am always seeking more viewpoints on the build. Now onto your addition… I like the premise and the work you have done on it, just have a few comments and questions.
The Death-Touched Lineage
Death-touched sorcerers are the descendents of those scarred by necromancy or a prolonged relationship with the undead (perhaps their mother was energy drained while they were in the womb?). This lineage gives them an affinity for the death, spirits and the undead.
Small question: Mind if play with grammar, spelling, etc?
Also, their seems to be a bit of cross-over in your ideas presented here. You state that a Death-touch sorcerer is one who has a relationship to lineage exposure to necromancy and undead. Yet on the other hand you give them abilities relating more to a shamanic-religious philosophy of death and the afterlife, rather than undeath…
Is this an intentional crossover? Are they more like a Sensitive or are they sorcerers with Necromantic power of the undead? Currently the class seems to bounce back and forth and is a bit too unclear.
Benefit: Death-touched sorcerers gain Knowledge (Religion and Arcana) and Move Silently as class skills. Their nature makes them naturally suited for esoteric thought as well as embodying the phrase ‘quiet as the grave’. They may also speak with the dead at will, but note: this is not as the spell of the same name. They are actually conversing with the spirit of the departed and not the “imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse”, and the spirit is under no compulsion to answer, whether truthfully or not; or indeed to even answer at all. The desire of the spirit to communicate is solely a function of diplomacy and its nature in life. Also unlike the spell, the corpse does not actually ‘speak’, rather the sorcerer receives any reply mentally. Thus any companions or observers hear only a one sided conversation. The sorcerer must either be within normal conversation range (about 20’ max) of the actual corpse (or a part of it), or he must be touching a person or object very dear to the dead creature in life. This speak with the dead ability gives them a +2 on any applicable Gather Information checks. Death-touched sorcerers may learn any Necromancy spell regardless of the spell list from which it comes.
Ok, following the above questions, I need to sort out some of the reasoning behind the abilities…
Why Knowledge (religion and arcana) and Move Silently? I assume…
Knowledge (religion) = religious philosophy of the afterlife?
Knowledge (arcana) = innate understanding of necromancy?
Move Silently = confused on this one, but I assume it’s the reference to ‘quiet as the grave’?
1st the skill section of benefits should follow one of the following patterns:
* Add 2 Class Skills
* Add 1 Class Skill and 1 Language
* Add 1 Class Skill and +1 to a skill
* Add +2 to a skill (can also add a language)
2nd – I would lean toward some different skill choices depending on the orientation of the class.
If the class is a link to undeath and the negative plane, I would add Knowledge (planes) or specifically Knowledge (undead) as a class skill. I would then grant something such as a +1 to all Intimidate skill checks, or Move Silent as the second class skill.
I like the Speak with the Dead ability, but I am not sure how usable it is in game. The spell has set rules for how it works and why. The ability you list will only work on the DM’s approval considering that most cosmologies assume the spirit has left the world for other planes of existence, thus only making the ability usable on ghosts.
Personally, I would probably lean toward…
They may also speak with the spirits of the dead as per
speak with dead, as a spell-like ability, a number of times per day equal to 3+ the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. However, unlike the spell the information gathered is as if using the Gather Information skill at a +2 bonus to the skill check rather than the standard Will save. Also, the death-touch sorcerer can communicate with any deceased regardless of someone else has used
speak with dead on the corpse. The sorcerer can still use this ability on a corpse that has been deceased for any amount of time, but the body does not have to be mostly intact to be able to respond, as only the head is required to speak with the sorcerer. This ability, unlike the spell does let you actually speak to the departed spirit but its memories of life are vague at best and the spirit never remembers previous conversations through this ability just as with the spell. This ability still does not affect a corpse that has been turned into an undead creature.
However, if you are going for an Undead/Necromancy touched sorcerer rather than a shamanic spirit sorcerer, I would simply grant
speak with dead as a spell-like ability 3+Cha mod times per day.
Special Limitation: Death-touched sorcerers are heavily influenced by their ancestry and suffer some of the vulnerabilities of that undead heritage. Whenever a death-touched sorcerer is the subject of a Cure Wounds spell they must make a Will save appropriate to the level of the spell or be damaged by the spell instead. The sorcerer may apply spell resistance, if any, and may attempt a second Will save to take only half damage. Conversely though, if the death-touched is the subject an Inflict Wounds spell they may be cured by it instead with a successful Will save. Due to their strong affinity to death and the spirit world they are left with a natural weakness toward good magic, receiving a –2 penalty to all saving throws against any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability of the good descriptor or used by creatures of the good subtype.
Here you are making them vulnerable as undead – linking them to undead rather than the shamanic aspects.
I think the drawback is a bit steep and somewhat complex. If you want them resistant to magical healing I would give them an involuntary spell resistance versus all Conjuration (Healing) spells that scales as they grow more powerful toward the negative energy. Thus I would grant SR (Conjuration-healing) 10 + Sorcerer Level. (Possibly 5+level if you don’t want to be too severe.)
Since this is a limitation, I would not add the ability to heal from
Inflict spells or it simply is not a limitation, but only changes the manner in which they heal.
Some other limitation considerations I would look at are as follows.
If this is based on a link to negative energy and undeath, I would do this as follows.
Limitations: A death-touched sorcerer is strongly affected by the negative energy of their lineage and thus may not be of any good alignment. They may also never learn any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability with either the Good or Conjuration (healing) descriptor or any other positive energy oriented ability. The sorcerer cannot use spell completion or spell trigger items that activate banned spells, as they just do not work for the sorcerer. Due to their strong affinity to magic of necromancy, they are left with a natural weakness toward magic of good and light, receiving a –2 penalty to all saving throws against any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability of positive energy, thus those with the good, sacred and healing descriptors or used by creatures of the good subtype. This necromantic aura also prevents the sorcerer from benefiting from healing magic. The death-touched sorcerer gain Spell Resistance 10 + their Sorcerer Level versus all Conjuration (healing) spells, spell-like and supernatural abilities. A death-touched sorcerer who becomes good or learns a prohibited spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability may no longer gain levels as a sorcerer but retains all sorcerer abilities. Also, like a member of any other class, a death-touched sorcerer may be a multiclass character, but they face a special restriction. A death-touched sorcerer who gains a new class or template that involves racial or bloodline or heredity related abilities that are not specifically Necromantic (or Undead) oriented (for example Half-Dragon), may never again raise their sorcerer level and loses all sorcerer lineage abilities (including their bonus spells known and lineage based spell-like abilities, but not including weapon proficiencies and standard spells known).
Lineage Spells: The death-touched sorcerer has a specific affinity with death and the undead and that manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability evolution. These lineage spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that spell level. The sorcerer gains the Death-Touched Lineage spell list.
Death-Touched Lineage Spell List: 0–touch of fatigue; 1st-chill touch; 2nd-command undead; 3rd-vampiric touch; 4th-animate dead; 5th-magic jar; 6th-create undead; 7th-ethereal jaunt; 8th-create greater undead; 9th–energy drain
This looks fine for an undead oriented sorcerer. However if going for the more benevolent shamanic orientation I would lean more toward…
Death-Touched Lineage Spell List: 0–disrupt undead; 1st-unseen servant; 2nd-see invisibility; 3rd-gaseous form; 4th-fear; 5th-contact other plane; 6th-undeath to death; 7th-ethereal jaunt; 8th-trap the soul; 9th–soul bind
Lineage Abilities: The death-touched sorcerer’s connection with the dead grows over time and they become more attune to the forces of the spirit world.
-- At 8th level the death-touched sorcerer gains the ability to sense the undead, spirits, ethereal and incorporeal creatures within 60’ at will. This reduces the miss chance versus incorporeal creatures to 25%. The death-touched sorcerer also gains protection as if under a permanent Death Ward spell.
What is the definition of “spirits”?
What information is gained when “sensed”? I assume that it is specific since it reduces miss chances. However, how does merely sensing them reduce miss chances?
Additionally, I would have to note that the 2 of these powers combined is too much, especially with being at will/permanent.
If you are going the shamanic spirit version I would grant...
-- At 8th level the sorcerer gains a supernatural aura that may be activated as a move-equivalent action a number of times per day equal to 3+ the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier and acts as the
see invisibility spell (at the sorcerer’s class level) except that it detects undead as well as invisible and ethereal creatures by outlining them in a faint aura. This ability also reveals illusions used to hide or camouflage undead, and also reveals undead creatures who are simply hiding, concealed, or otherwise hard to see. This aura can be dispelled, but can be activated again as a move-equivalent action on the sorcerer’s next turn.
If you are going the undead/negative energy aspect I would grant…
-- At 8th level the sorcerer gains a supernatural aura that may be activated as a move-equivalent action a number of times per day equal to 3+ the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier and acts as the
death ward spell (at the sorcerer’s class level) except that it also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained. The drained level is restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is equal to or less than one day per caster level. A sorcerer who has a level restored by this effect has exactly the minimum number of experience points necessary to restore them to their previous level. This aura can be dispelled, but can be activated again as a move-equivalent action on the sorcerer’s next turn.
-- At 14th level the death-touched sorcerer's connection to their undead ancestry deepens such that they take on some of the traits of undeath. The sorcerer gains immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, and disease; as well as fatigue and exhaustion effects. However, this radical change to their very nature has a deep impact on their ability to connect with and understand the living. They suffer a –2 penalty to any skill checks involving interaction with those who are not dead.
Here you go completely to the undead aspect again. However, the ability is VERY powerful. If the undead path is the one you are following see my comments for this below at 20th.
Instead of this ability, and want to still go the route of being undead, I would grant something along the following lines.
-- At 14th level the death-touched sorcerer gains the supernatural ability to change into the form of an undead spirit (and back again) a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier. This ability acts as the
ghostform spell (
Tome & Blood).
-- At 20th level, a death-touched sorcerer becomes so attune to their lineage that they gain the outsider type as well as the augmented and native subtypes. The sorcerer undergoes a minor physical transformation, often gaining a deathly pallor and a cold, though not unnaturally so, touch. There may be other manifestations as well- an unnatural gleam in their eyes, the musty smell of grave dirt around them, etc.. They are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the sorcerer’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the death-touched sorcerer gains the following benefits.
- Darkvision out to 60’.
- Gain Damage Reduction 10/magic(Su)
- Gain Immunity to critical hits, non-lethal damage, ability drain, physical ability score damage (Str, Dex, Con), and death from massive damage.
- No longer needs to breathe, eat or sleep
Unlike other outsiders, the sorcerer can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Thoughts? Comments? Adjustments?
Since at 14th level you seem to be going for a completely undead oriented conversion I am a bit confused by the Outsider conversion at the end. I could see outsider if this was more a shamanic spirit totem style sorcerer, but one that is based on becoming more and more undead-like I would convert to undead at 20th.
-- At 20th level, a death-touched sorcerer becomes so attune to their lineage that they gain the undead type as well as the augmented subtypes. The sorcerer undergoes no noticeable physical transformation short of a slight loss in weight and a loss of pallor in the skin. They are forevermore treated as an undead rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the sorcerer’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the totem sorcerer gains the following benefits and hinderances.
• The sorcerer’s Constitution score becomes zero, but current hit point totals do not change. However, when reduced to 0hp or below they are destroyed. They can also no longer be healed by Conjuration (healing) spells but negative energy (such as an
inflict spell) can heal them. They are also immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless) since they no longer have a constitution. For Concentration skill checks, the sorcerer now uses their Charisma modifier.
• Darkvision out to 60’.
• Gain immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects including from massive damage.
• They are no longer subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. They are also not affected by
raise dead, reincarnate, resurrection or
true resurrection spells or abilities.
• Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
I look forward to your further replies. Like I said, its an interesting concept, just needs some ironing out. Thoughts?
