Sorcerer Fix - Continued from "D&D Rules" (PART 4)

[Khaalis]

To Khaalis & everyone else on this project--great work.
Khaalis - on the next version of the PDF, could you drop in the spells per day and spells known charts from the SRD. It would make the document a complete reference for the sorcerer & variants.
Thanks.

Thanks for the suggestion and the compliments, I wasn't sure people would want the extra space taken up by the Spells Per Day table. There is no need for the spells known table as it exists however, as the variant uses a different acquisition method that doesn't rely on the table (2 spells per level, only 1 in highest spell level).

 

[dragoncc]

Excellent work Khaalis! Been following this thread off & on while my DM & I work on converting his homeworld into 3.5 & I must say this is good stuff

A note on the work you & FoxWander have been working on: there is a "companion spirit" in the mage class in The Elements of Magic (original one not the revised one) that would probably fit the bill for your spirit familiar as that's the similar one we developed for our familiar system period - really what we feel familiars are supposed to be but that's another thread

Anyway, keep up the good work & I'll let you know how our first sorcerer does.

Thanks for your (& everyone else's) hard work!

 

[Khaalis]

Excellent work Khaalis! Been following this thread off & on while my DM & I work on converting his homeworld into 3.5 & I must say this is good stuff

A note on the work you & FoxWander have been working on: there is a "companion spirit" in the mage class in The Elements of Magic (original one not the revised one) that would probably fit the bill for your spirit familiar as that's the similar one we developed for our familiar system period - really what we feel familiars are supposed to be but that's another thread

Anyway, keep up the good work & I'll let you know how our first sorcerer does.

Thanks for your (& everyone else's) hard work!

Thanks for the compliments. I am surprised at how much support the thread and the design have gotten. I am always glad to continue working on it and tweaking it to better create a sorcerer that makes more sense to the masses.

Is The Elements of Magic OGL? Could you share some of the information on the specific ability? If not how much is acquisition of the old product or is it even still available?

 

[dragoncc]

Is The Elements of Magic OGL? Could you share some of the information on the specific ability? If not how much is acquisition of the old product or is it even still available?

Not OGL as far as I remember, but a quick google proved fruitful as far as availability & pricing. Looks like it's still available & on sale from RPGNow:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=535

Basically it's a familiar that is a spirit (as traditional familiars are described) as opposed to a "normal" D&D animal with spirit-related conferred abilities where the usual ones don't fit. As general as I can get without revealing specifics

The one thing I have noticed is that they did not include that version in the Elements of Magic revised edition (they simplified it into something totally different), so you might be able to contact the author Matt Blakeley to see if he would let you use it in your class.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Thanks for the link to the download on your page Khaalis!

 

[Khaalis]

Any further comments on the Death-touched, FoxWander?

 

[FoxWander]

Any further comments on the Death-touched, FoxWander?

Sorry, I went on a mini-vacation and haven't been around a computer.

I think I agree with most of your points above. I unfortunately tend toward the slightly unbalanced when designing new stuff. That's why I appreciate your comments.

I wish there was some balanced way to allow a good-aligned Death-touched to animate/summon good-aligned undead. I think calling a good-aligned ghost to help the sorcerer would be a perfect ability for this lineage. Perhaps gaining a spirit familiar, like the Ancestor Spirit Shaman would work. Here's that write-up for reference...

At 14th level the ancestor shaman sorcerer gains the ability to summon an ancestral spirit from the astral plane that takes the form of a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow spirit’s alignment matches that of the sorcerer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow spirit cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This shadow spirit serves as a companion to the sorcerer and can communicate intelligibly with the sorcerer. Every third level gained by the sorcerer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to their shadow spirit companion. If a shadow spirit companion is destroyed, or the sorcerer chooses to dismiss it, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw 6
fails, the sorcerer loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 100 XP per sorcerer class level. The sorcerer’s XP total can never go below 0 as the result of a shadow spirit’s dismissal or destruction. A destroyed or dismissed shadow spirit companion cannot be replaced for 30 days

I think that would work quite well for the Death-touched 14th level ability as well.

Then for the 20th level lineage ability, drop the Ghost template ability I had and replace it with the ability to go Incorporeal at will, along with their equipment. They'd also have the +1 bonus to the save DCs of their spells, for being closer to the source of thier powers while incorporeal. And for a little more "ghostly" feel to this ability, I'd like to add that if the sorcerer should cast Magic Jar while incorporeal they do not need the gem or crystal focus for the spell. Instead they need to succeed at a touch attack where they simply merge with the body of the possessed if the Magic jar spell is successful. (Sorry, I just really like the idea of the sorcerer becoming very akin to a ghost as part of the transformation. )

Everything else I'd keep the same as I previously posted. I know the two spell choices in the spell list breaks with the template, but it's the best way I can think to allow good or evil Death-touched. And I really don't like limiting the class to just non-good alignments. Granted, I can't see too many people playing a good-aligned version of this class, but I'd like to keep the option there. We could also avoid the issue by just dropping the Create undead and Planar Ally spells off the list and leaving those types of spells to the choice of the players for their normal spell lists- but then we're back to, I'm not sure what spells really fit for the lineage at 4th, 6th and 8th levels. Open call to anyone reading this: Have any suggetions for appropriate spells based on the lineage concept as developed so far?

Optionally, back to what I mentioned above, do you think allowing the creation of undead that match the alignment of the sorcerer would create any problems? Rules-wise I don't see it as unbalancing by itself. Nothing else would change about the undead, except for its alignment. So it would still be affected by all the same spells in the same way, could still be turned/rebuked, etc.. The only problem really comes from the roleplaying side, which makes it not really a problem but a great roleplaying oppurtunity. How does the good sorcerer reconcile the creation of undead, even though they serve willingly and are of the same alignment he is? How do intelligent, good undead deal with their inherently "evil" powers? There are all kinds of great concepts in the idea of creating good undead that would have to be dealt with, but that could be a problem in itself- does the idea add "too much" to the game for just being a variant core class? That may be the problem more than any potential "rules issues" with the alignment of the undead themselves.

So what does anyone else following this thread think? And of course, to Khallis, about the lineage ability ideas... Thoughts?

 

[Evilhalfling]

Well Foxwarder I still lurk this thread after getting such great feedback from Kaalis on the Totem Shaman socerer, who I am sorry to say died last session, he was incapacitated in battle, and dropped into a bag of holding by his friends, with a NPC in the shape of a goldfinch. When they both died of suffication, the goldfinch became a man and the bag was overloaded and both were lost forever.

I tried looking up the repose domain on the SRD
Repose Domain Spells
1 Deathwatch
2 Gentle repose
3 Speak with dead
4 Death ward
5 Slay living
6 Undeath to death
7 Destruction
8 Surelife
9 Wail of the banshee

but it seems nothing like what you intended - Create Undead to create good aligned undead has the problem that normally the spell forces the caster to compel the undead, they are not automatically controlled. Having these undead start as friendly would be a major benfit.
So my official recommendation is to add good aligned undead to the planar ally options, this gives you helpful undead but with established rules.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Well Foxwarder I still lurk this thread after getting such great feedback from Kaalis on the Totem Shaman socerer, who I am sorry to say died last session, he was incapacitated in battle, and dropped into a bag of holding by his friends, with a NPC in the shape of a goldfinch. When they both died of suffication, the goldfinch became a man and the bag was overloaded and both were lost forever.

I tried looking up the repose domain on the SRD
Repose Domain Spells
1 Deathwatch
2 Gentle repose
3 Speak with dead
4 Death ward
5 Slay living
6 Undeath to death
7 Destruction
8 Surelife
9 Wail of the banshee

but it seems nothing like what you intended - Create Undead to create good aligned undead has the problem that normally the spell forces the caster to compel the undead, they are not automatically controlled. Having these undead start as friendly would be a major benfit.
So my official recommendation is to add good aligned undead to the planar ally options, this gives you helpful undead but with established rules.

 

[Khaalis]

If we give Incorporeality “at will” for 20th, I think that is all they should get as it is a VERY powerful ability. If you were to limit it to say 3+Cha Mod uses per day, I would consider giving them a Spell-Like Ability and DC mods as well.

So we have the following then?

Ok, taking all of your comments for flavor and feel into account... how is this revision?

DEATH-TOUCHED LINEAGE: Death-touched sorcerers are a rare lineage of sorcerers born with an ability to bridge the gap between the living and the dead, gifted with the ability to speak directly to the spirits of the dead. This forms the sorcerer’s power in an innate affinity for magic related to the dead, but not necessarily a necromancer that is a specialist in the undead. This connection to the dead is involuntary and death-touched sorcerers may choose to harness the ability for their own ends, be they good, evil or somewhere in between.
(Reference: Harry Keough, of Brian Lumley’s Necroscope[/]i books, or Cole Sear, from the movie The Sixth Sense would be death-touched sorcerers were they to exist in the D&D universe.)

Benefit: Death-touched sorcerers gain Knowledge (arcana and planes) as class skills. The sorcerer’s link to the spirits of the dead allows them to speak with those spirits to converse or even to glean information. This acts as a speak with dead spell-like ability at will, with the following exceptions. Unlike the spell, the death-touched sorcerer does not compel a spirit to answer. Instead, information gathered is as if using the Gather Information skill (at a +2 insight bonus to the skill check) rather than the standard Will save. Also, the death-touch sorcerer can communicate with any deceased spirit regardless of whether or not someone has used speak with dead on the corpse. The sorcerer can still use this ability on a corpse that has been deceased for any amount of time, and the corpse still needs to be present with at minimum the head intact, as it is the gate between the death-touched sorcerer and the spirit. This ability, unlike the spell, allows communication between the sorcerer and the departed spirit, not just lingering memories in the corpse. However, the spirit’s memories of life are vague at best due to their connection to their new plane of existence. The spirit always remembers previous conversations through this ability however, unlike the spell. This ability still does not affect a corpse that has been turned into an undead creature. Death-touched sorcerers may learn any spell, regardless of the spell list from which it comes from, that directly affects undead or incorporeal creatures.

Special Limitation: Death-touched sorcerers have an innate connection to the spirits of the dead and with many necromantic magics which leaves a tell-tale mark of negative energy on the sorcerer making it harder for them to heal by magical healing. The death-touched sorcerer gains an involuntary Spell Resistance equal to 5+ their sorcerer class level versus all Conjuration (healing) magic. By involuntary, this means that the Spell Resistance is always active and cannot be voluntarily dropped by the sorcerer. The sorcerer’s aura also always detects as necromantic regardless of the other powers they possess. The death-touched sorcerer may also never learn any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability with the Good or Healing designator. They cannot use spell completion or spell trigger items that activate banned spells, as they just do not work for the sorcerer. Due to their strong affinity to magic of the spirit world, they are left with a natural weakness toward magic of good or positive origin, receiving a –2 penalty to all saving throws against any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability of the good designator or used by creatures of the good subtype. A death-touched sorcerer who learns a prohibited spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability may no longer gain levels as a sorcerer as well as loses all sorcerer lineage abilities (including lineage bonus known spells and spell-like abilities, but not including weapon proficiencies and normal spells known), until they atone (see the atonement spell description). Also, like a member of any other class, a death-touched sorcerer may be a multiclass character, but they face a special restriction. A death-touched sorcerer who gains a new class or template that involves racial or bloodline or heredity related abilities that are not specifically spirit oriented (for example Half-Dragon), may never again raise their sorcerer level and loses all sorcerer lineage abilities (including their bonus spells known and lineage based spell-like abilities, but not including weapon proficiencies and standard spells known).

Lineage Spells: The sorcerer has a specific affinity with the spirits of the dead and the magic they wield manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability evolution. These lineage spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that spell level. The sorcerer gains the Death-touched Lineage spell list.
Death-touched Lineage Spell List: 0–disrupt undead; 1st-unseen servant; 2nd-command undead; 3rd-gaseous form; 4th-planar ally, lesser OR animate dead; 5th-contact other plane; 6th-planar ally OR create undead; 7th-ethereal jaunt; 8th-planar ally, greater OR create greater undead; 9th-etherealness
(Note: At levels 4, 6 and 8 two spells are listed, depending on the sorcerer’s alignment one or the other is gained, not both. Neutral aligned sorcerer’s may choose which one upon gaining 4th level spells, they then gain the matching 6th and 8th level spells when appropriate.)

Lineage Abilities: The death-touched sorcerer’s connection with the spirits of the dead grows over time and they become more akin to those spirits and to the force of the spirit world.
……….At 8th level the sorcerer gains a supernatural ability that may be activated as a move-equivalent action a number of times per day equal to 3+ the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier and acts as a see invisibility spell (at the sorcerer’s class level) except that it detects undead as well as invisible and ethereal creatures by outlining them in a faint aura. This ability also reveals illusions used to hide or camouflage undead, and also reveals undead creatures who are simply hiding, concealed, or otherwise hard to see. The aura also acts as a sanctuary spell against these creatures. This aura can be dispelled, but can be activated again as a move-equivalent action on the sorcerer’s next turn and lasts for 10 minutes per sorcerer class level.

………. At 14th level the death-touched sorcerer gains the ability to summon a ghostly spirit from its resting place on the outer planes. This spirit takes the form of a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this spirit’s alignment matches that of the sorcerer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned spirit cannot be turned, rebuked, or commanded by any third party. This shadow spirit serves as a companion to the sorcerer and can communicate intelligibly with the sorcerer. Every third level gained by the sorcerer adds +2 HD (and the requisite base attack and base save bonus increases) to their shadow spirit companion. If a shadow spirit companion is destroyed, or the sorcerer chooses to dismiss it, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the sorcerer loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level. A successful saving throw reduces the loss by half, to 100 XP per sorcerer class level. The sorcerer’s XP total can never go below 0 as the result of a shadow spirit’s dismissal or destruction. A destroyed or dismissed shadow spirit companion cannot be replaced for 30 days.

……….At 20th level the death-touched sorcerer becomes so attuned to the spirit world that they become a being of pure magic with a complete connection to the spirit world. The sorcerer undergoes a minor physical transformation usually to the hair, skin or eyes, such as grey-blue death-like pallor, blue lips, vacant un-dilating eyes, skin cold to the touch, etc. They are forevermore treated as an incorporeal creature rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the sorcerer’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects, even when in corporeal form. Additionally, the death-touched sorcerer gains the following benefits.
• Darkvision out to 60’.
• If the sorcerer desires, they can become incorporeal at will, as a standard action, for as long as they wish. Changing back to corporeal form is also a standard action. The sorcerer’s worn equipment (including armor and weapons) becomes incorporeal with them. This has no effect on the equipment’s function, but when the sorcerer is incorporeal they can enter or pass through solid objects while wearing their equipment. The equipment automatically changes to incorporeal when the sorcerer is incorporeal, and it returns to corporeality when the sorcerer does.

Incoporeality (Su): When becoming incorporeal the sorcerer lacks a physical body. They become insubstantial and can’t be touched by non-magical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature. Incorporeal creatures still exist on the same plane, and those on that plane still have some chance to affect them.
…..When incorporeal, the sorcerer can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, by magic weapons, or by spells, spell-like effects, or supernatural effects. They are immune to all non-magical attack forms. They are not burned by normal fires, affected by natural cold, or harmed by mundane acids. Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal death-touched sorcerer has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source—except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon.
…..Incorporeal death-touched sorcerers are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks. They move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground. They can pass through solid objects at will and cannot fall or take falling damage, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter. They also have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight. They can also pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. They do not leave footprints, do not have a scent, and do not make noise unless they manifest, and even then they only make noise intentionally.
…..Incorporeal death-touched sorcerers hiding inside solid objects get a +2 circumstance bonus on Listen checks, because solid objects carry sound well. Pinpointing an opponent from inside a solid object uses the same rules as pinpointing invisible opponents (see Invisibility, below).
…..The physical attacks of incorporeal death-touched sorcerers ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability. Also, corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal death-touched sorcerers.
​

…..Unlike other incorporeal creatures, the sorcerer can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Also unlike other incorporeal creature, death-touched sorcerers still need to eat and sleep like a normal humanoid.




Thoughts?