D&D (2024) Can we have the sorcerer fixed now? (Plz, I beg you n_n°)

[Tales and Chronicles]

I know I'm a couple weeks late to the party on this post, but this point reminds me of the POWERS OF THE MIND feature of a Psion subclass on D&D Beyond that was created by some random user that I've never, ever heard of before in all my entire life.

Yeah, to be honest, Psion and Sorcerer kinda share the same theme of ''power from the inside'', so this kinda feature, while pretty basic, is spot on for the story these classes wanna tell.

But like everything related to magic, if a Wizard cant do it in some way, no way in hell any other class will be able to do it.

Personally I'd give 4 archetypes to the sorcerer in the PHB: Dragon, Chaos, Storm and Mind (being the psion). Mind would be your classical psion stuff, with maybe subtypes like the Hunter Ranger or Totem Barb to focus more on Telekinesis, Telepathy or Egoism (do not reprint the Aberrant Mind, because not every psion want the whole tentacles/mythos/madness baggage)

 

[Gorck]

Yeah, to be honest, Psion and Sorcerer kinda share the same theme of ''power from the inside'', so this kinda feature, while pretty basic, is spot on for the story these classes wanna tell.

But like everything related to magic, if a Wizard cant do it in some way, no way in hell any other class will be able to do it.

Personally I'd give 4 archetypes to the sorcerer in the PHB: Dragon, Chaos, Storm and Mind (being the psion). Mind would be your classical psion stuff, with maybe subtypes like the Hunter Ranger or Totem Barb to focus more on Telekinesis, Telepathy or Egoism (do not reprint the Aberrant Mind, because not every psion want the whole tentacles/mythos/madness baggage)

The problem with a Psion subclass in my opinion is that it's difficult to find the right class for it. Psions scream "brain power" to me, so it would be more appropriate for them to be INT based like a Wizard, rather than CHA based. But Psionic powers aren't learned from study books; they're inherent in you from birth like a Sorcerer. WotC went one way by making the Aberrant Mind a Sorcerer sublass. I went the other way and made my Psion a Wizard subclass that eschews the spellbook and needing to prepare spells.

The ideal solution would be to make the Psion a separate class, but not like the Mystic UA. More like porting over the 3.5e Psion that I loved to play back in the day. But, I've probably hijacked this Sorcerer thread enough with my Psion rambling.

 

[Aldarc]

The problem with a Psion subclass in my opinion is that it's difficult to find the right class for it. Psions scream "brain power" to me, so it would be more appropriate for them to be INT based like a Wizard, rather than CHA based. But Psionic powers aren't learned from study books; they're inherent in you from birth like a Sorcerer. WotC went one way by making the Aberrant Mind a Sorcerer sublass. I went the other way and made my Psion a Wizard subclass that eschews the spellbook and needing to prepare spells.

The ideal solution would be to make the Psion a separate class, but not like the Mystic UA. More like porting over the 3.5e Psion that I loved to play back in the day. But, I've probably hijacked this Sorcerer thread enough with my Psion rambling.

Whereas to me, Psion screams WIS based since many of its powers pertain to willpower, extrasensory perception, intuition, mysticism, insight, feelings, etc. rather than intelligence, education, knowledge, or logic.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

Whereas to me, Psion screams WIS based since many of its powers pertain to willpower, extrasensory perception, intuition, myticism, insight, feelings, etc. rather than intelligence, education, knowledge, or logic.

Yeah I tend to lean this way. Though I would say charisma being defined as personal awareness makes a decent argument but yeah wis makes a lot more sense. Very monklike in the sense of personal mastery

 

[Mind of tempest]

Whereas to me, Psion screams WIS based since many of its powers pertain to willpower, extrasensory perception, intuition, myticism, insight, feelings, etc. rather than intelligence, education, knowledge, or logic.

Yeah I tend to lean this way. Though I would say charisma being defined as personal awareness makes a decent argument but yeah wis makes a lot more sense. Very monklike in the sense of personal mastery

it would also let them go toward themes of enlightenment to contrast it with the service of divine caster and the almost science but definitely mathematic base of arcane(bards would oddly work well with a math derived arcane base as those good at math tend to also be good at music)

 

[Gorck]

Whereas to me, Psion screams WIS based since many of its powers pertain to willpower, extrasensory perception, intuition, myticism, insight, feelings, etc. rather than intelligence, education, knowledge, or logic.

While I feel they should be INT based, I can certainly see them being WIS based more than CHA based. All the more reason to make them a separate class. Wizard = INT Arcane casters, Psion = WIS Arcane casters, and Sorcerer = CHA Arcane casters.

 

[Blue]

Coming into this thread rather late, but one change that I think could be interesting is to move from spells known to "spell themes known".

What I mean by that is that sorcerers are supposed to be naturals at what they do - they don't have the breadth of a wizard who can study anything, but can manipulate what they do know. But metamagic is nice, not defining, so they fall a bit short of that.

So instead have "Spell Themes", like "Projecting Fire" or "Space Manipulation", and each of these has a number of spells - at least one per level, probably more for the lower levels. And the fiction is that the Sorcerer knows how to Project Fire, and is twisting that in various ways - this round to send s fan of fire from her hand, next to send an array of bolts, and when she gets a bit better to do a huge ball of fire.

At that point we can even allow benefits to the themes as they go up in levels. So maybe the first one you picked get a free level of upcast when you hit 7th. Or once per round metamagic costs one less (min 0) for one Spell Theme you pick at 9th. Maybe at some level in the teens you can concentrate on two spells in the same Spell Theme, because for you it's "the same spell" narratively, just manifesting in two different ways.

Mind you, you'll have less spell themes known than spells known. From a practical point of view we'd have to see if there are any "spells known tax" that basically every sorcerer takes - if so we could put that on a common list all sorcerers get, either as free spells known for all (which can get same-y), or a spells that they can cast even if not in one of their spell themes for 1 SP.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If you look at people who are "naturals" at magic in fiction, most of them have great (almost subconscious) sensitivity to magic, which makes me think the sorcerer would be better as a wisdom caster. Since wisdom gets caught up in religious and nature-based casting, D&D has never dug deep into what it really would mean to be a wisdom caster. So if the sorcerer was a wisdom caster, they might be able to, say, automatically know the level and school of any spell they see being cast (great for counterspell), among other things....

 

[Clint_L]

Sorcerers suffer from being confined to a Vancian magic system that was designed for wizards, so they always just feel like a weird more limited kind of wizard - a wizard with the gimmick that they get their magic innately rather than from study.

IMO, you won't be able to really fix sorcerers while still keeping them within largely the same spell lists and system as wizards. Suggestion:

1. Give them some cool, unique spells that reflect their magical heritage and other classes are envious of, the same way Clerics are envied for revivify, etc.

2. (more radical; WotC will never go for it): take them off the Vancian magic system and have them do everything with sorcery points, giving them enough sorcery points to keep up. Thus, they will sacrifice the versatility of a wizard in terms of spell choice for versatility in how to spend their magic. Sorcery points already do this to some degree so just take it to the logical conclusion. Make them play totally differently from wizards.

In other words, a sorcerer wouldn't have any spell slots at all. They'd just have the spells they know and a bunch of sorcery points to figure out how to combine.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Comes a time when I think they should just remove the Wizard.

1) The class as barely any features beyond having access to all arcane magic. Sadly, them being ''THE arcane class'' makes the other attempting to share the same niche pale in comparison.

2) The ''magic is learned, not something you are born with'' trope is steadily losing relevance when compared to the more common ''I'm born with magic and I develop this power'' or ''I inherited power through chance encounter with X'' with is represented in game by the Sorcerer and Warlock. The ''magic as lore'' would be better left to the real scholar class, the Bard.

3) The Wizard's archetypes lack any themes beyond the school they master, which is only a self-reference to a traditionally D&Dism.

4) The Wizard seems to be the only reason Intelligence is still a stat in the game. Move lore proficiencies to general proficiencies like tools and languages. Replace Intelligence with something lacking in D&D like Sense or Perception, finally getting rid at the same time of the weird Wisdom = Eyesight and Hunting!
Wisdom = Reasoning, Memory, Disciplined Mind etc, Perception = Investigation, Spot, Hunting etc, Charisma = Presence, Willpower, Cunning etc



sorry...that's it for today's rant.